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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Engines > Diesel
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Diesel This is a forum dedicated to diesel engines and their applicable accessories.


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  #41  
Old 02-17-2013
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Re: Repower confusion (horsepower)

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Originally Posted by Waltthesalt View Post
....
It's a good point not to overpower. Diesels don't like to be run at less than about 70% power.
Yep, don't overpower. I've got a 40HP Volvo in my little 30-footer and the only time I have ever been able to run it comfortably at WOT for more than a few minutes is when towing three other boats (a broken-down S&S30 and two 28-ft engineless Tumlaren) ...and we were still doing hull speed.
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  #42  
Old 02-18-2013
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Re: Repower confusion (horsepower)

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Originally Posted by jobberone View Post
Interesting thread. I've messed with turbos on cars for a long time including some high HP 'street' cars. The issue of turbos causing problems is IMO outdated. They've been using turbos in big trucks and now passenger trucks for a long time. If you can take a smaller motor and get the same relative displacement out of it as a bigger motor then that's a plus. If you add in direct fuel injection then you have an extra benefit of cooling and better fuel economy. More complicated but more efficient and generally longer lived.
My motor is a standard block for a 150hp version, derated to 100hp. No weight or size savings that I can tell. It runs a lower rpms and is quiter. The turbo and injector system do improve fuel economy, but that just seems silly in a sailboat that doesn't burn much in the first place. Again, makes more sense for a stinkpotter or truck.

Sailboats just have small motors, so I guess I don't really understand the need to make them smaller and add turbos.

I need a new $3k turbo for my motor. I'm jaded, for sure.
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  #43  
Old 02-18-2013
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Re: Repower confusion (horsepower)

I understand the drive for smaller/more powerful, and the weight reduction associated with a smaller block delivering higher hp for a lot of boat applications. For a cruising sailboat not so much though. My son's boat has a Yanmar engine, 55 hp, with a turbo and it died while they were in Florida ready to depart for an extended cruise to the carib (the $1500 turbo would have cost $3000 in the Bahamas). The first replacement turned out to be defective, the second took over a week to arrive. This was in Ft. Lauderdale, Fl. How long would it take in Tonga, or even Prince Rupert, BC for that matter (if you could get there without the engine). Keep it simple, or carry a spare.
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  #44  
Old 02-18-2013
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Re: Repower confusion (horsepower)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
My motor is a standard block for a 150hp version, derated to 100hp. No weight or size savings that I can tell. It runs a lower rpms and is quiter. The turbo and injector system do improve fuel economy, but that just seems silly in a sailboat that doesn't burn much in the first place. Again, makes more sense for a stinkpotter or truck.

Sailboats just have small motors, so I guess I don't really understand the need to make them smaller and add turbos.

I need a new $3k turbo for my motor. I'm jaded, for sure.
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Originally Posted by jrd22 View Post
I understand the drive for smaller/more powerful, and the weight reduction associated with a smaller block delivering higher hp for a lot of boat applications. For a cruising sailboat not so much though. My son's boat has a Yanmar engine, 55 hp, with a turbo and it died while they were in Florida ready to depart for an extended cruise to the carib (the $1500 turbo would have cost $3000 in the Bahamas). The first replacement turned out to be defective, the second took over a week to arrive. This was in Ft. Lauderdale, Fl. How long would it take in Tonga, or even Prince Rupert, BC for that matter (if you could get there without the engine). Keep it simple, or carry a spare.
I don't disagree at all. I guess my main point is turbos are much more reliable now. OTOH, there are many turbos sold that are not superior but in fact inferior and not a lot better than those years ago. I don't know diesel marine motors having never messed with them and I don't know diesels like I do turbo gas motors. If you stay with Garrett yada and buy the good stuff it will generally last. I don't consider my turbos to be a fail point on my engine but this may be apples to oranges with a marine low hp low rpm diesel.

If I had a freakin boat I would worry about many other things besides turbo vs NA. I don't see any practical application for a turbo on a cruiser except for one major point. IF you can put a smaller but as powerful replacement engine in a tight spot and gain more practical access by doing so then that's something I'd greatlyconsider.

I think fuel economy is something many would consider depending on how much they motor. From talking to some they use their motor a lot. I don't know the difference in fuel economy between a newer turbo diesel vs a newer NA one. I highly suspect both are more efficient than an older diesel. The use of a computer and direct cylinder injection helps here and I don't know how much more efficient a turbo makes it when you are talking about pushing a small sailboat. Diesels are already more efficient than gas motors in general and it may be a smaller combustion area with higher cylinder pressures as in a turbo application would make it even more efficient. I don't know that or that it would make a lot of difference to many sailors.

You can also start getting into the area of cylinder head design and even incorporating the exhaust into the cylinder head in some of the newest applications. I don't know how much of this has actually moved into the area of marine technology much less sales and use.

Most of this is just for discussion. If you're like me you just want a motor which cranks up when you ask it to and doesn't cause problems with as little maintenance as possible.

I have a question for those with the newer motors. Do you have to watch the quality of fuel used and do you have to maintain your fuel filtration more closely?
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Re: Repower confusion (horsepower)

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Originally Posted by jobberone View Post
....I have a question for those with the newer motors. Do you have to watch the quality of fuel used and do you have to maintain your fuel filtration more closely?
Absolutely. Water is the biggest concern with related biologic contamination.

I filter twice. Once on the factory standard engine mount as well as a separate Racor water separating filter. Some have dual Racors.

I got to thinking about fuel economy from turbos. I've probably spent $1,000 in troubleshooting the thing and ultimately, I'm going to need to replace it. The turbo and motor is only 8 years old. The troubleshooting labor plus the cost of the new turbo and its installation is probably in the neighborhood of an entire decade in fuel bills. Literally. No net fuel efficiency to be had here.
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  #46  
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Re: Repower confusion (horsepower)

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Absolutely. Water is the biggest concern with related biologic contamination.

I filter twice. Once on the factory standard engine mount as well as a separate Racor water separating filter. Some have dual Racors.

I got to thinking about fuel economy from turbos. I've probably spent $1,000 in troubleshooting the thing and ultimately, I'm going to need to replace it. The turbo and motor is only 8 years old. The troubleshooting labor plus the cost of the new turbo and its installation is probably in the neighborhood of an entire decade in fuel bills. Literally. No net fuel efficiency to be had here.
I was wondering about the newer type injectors clogging more easily.

Eight years of life from an engine is not bad although we'd all like more. I'd suggest having the turbo rebuilt rather than replaced if possible. The housing can be cleaned and you could even have it ceramic coated if you like. Replace the parts as needed. Just a suggestion. While you're at it consider rebuilding the engine. It likely only needs rings, gaskets and bearings if at all.

BTW, I'm not on any side here about turbos.
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  #47  
Old 02-18-2013
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Re: Repower confusion (horsepower)

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Originally Posted by jobberone View Post
I was wondering about the newer type injectors clogging more easily.

Eight years of life from an engine is not bad although we'd all like more. I'd suggest having the turbo rebuilt rather than replaced if possible. The housing can be cleaned and you could even have it ceramic coated if you like. Replace the parts as needed. Just a suggestion. While you're at it consider rebuilding the engine. It likely only needs rings, gaskets and bearings if at all.

BTW, I'm not on any side here about turbos.
8 years from a sailboat diesel is grossly unacceptable. The average use is only a couple of hundred hours a year. A properly maintained diesel in a sailboat should last several decades not several years.
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  #48  
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Re: Repower confusion (horsepower)

Our motor is in perfect condition, other than the turbo. Compressions are right on, injectors are clean, etc. It only has about 800 hours on it over 8 years. Needs a new exhaust elbow, but that's about due.

Unfortunately, the Volvo Penta turbo that our engine requires is not serviceable. Don't ask me why, but I've confirmed it.
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Old 02-18-2013
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Re: Repower confusion (horsepower)

Minn- most turbos are rebuildable, but some are proprietary and the shops can't get parts. Apparently VPenta would rather sell a new one than sell the parts. I ran into this on a few of the trucks we had in my business.
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  #50  
Old 02-19-2013
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Re: Repower confusion (horsepower)

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Originally Posted by jrd22 View Post
Minn- most turbos are rebuildable, but some are proprietary and the shops can't get parts. Apparently VPenta would rather sell a new one than sell the parts. I ran into this on a few of the trucks we had in my business.
Most are. Ironically, the Volvo 31/41 variants (mostly the same motor) all have turbos and every other model can be rebuilt, except mine. Painful. No idea why this is the case.
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