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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Engines > Diesel
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Diesel This is a forum dedicated to diesel engines and their applicable accessories.


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  #11  
Old 03-11-2013
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Re: Raw Water Cooled for 35 Years?

My raw water cooled Yanmar 3GMC is 28 year old. I thought I had a cooling problem last year but I was mistaken!
Age alone is not a reason not to buy or to repower the boat.
There are a few ways to get a idea of the condition of the motor and what you may be getting into.
Can go for a motor survey or if you know (really know) a competent "thinking" mechanic, there is much
they will be able to find out in an hour or so.
Can do an oil analysis and if he has the proper gauge a compression test.
Also you could also observe a lot by taking the motor from a cold start (insist the motor is cold)
...on cold days these motors want a lot of throttle to start up...and then immediately after starting throttle down. ...observing smoke color, vibrations, (at different rpms) motor mounts, oil leaks (place absorbent mat under oil pan before start up ...and a sea trail, again changing rpm's over full range.
Oh yeah...ask when the 3 zincs plugs in the side of the motor were last checked/changed and then check the condition by removing the 3 zincs...their condition will tell you something about maintenance motor has been getting...they will be a bear to remove if not checked in the last year or 2.
Hope this helps,
Hugo
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Old 03-11-2013
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Re: Raw Water Cooled for 35 Years?

Would add that instead of fresh water rinsing I flush my motor with Rydlyme every few years. Seriously removes any rust and salt deposits. There is a sailnet thread in which Mainesail gives step by step instructions including the very important neutralizing
of the Rydlyme and then running the motor to oxidize passages.
search "Flushing a sea water cooled diesel"
Real easy and would recommend to anyone buying a new old
water cooled motor.
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Old 03-12-2013
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Re: Raw Water Cooled for 35 Years?

I would question the flushing with fresh water. if you do this do you use a zinc or magnesium anode. seems like magnesium would be best choice because the time the engine sits with fresh water in the system would be a lot longer then the time the engine is used with salt water. using fresh water with a zinc in the engine might be more harm then good.
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Last edited by overbored; 03-12-2013 at 03:26 AM.
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Old 03-12-2013
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Re: Raw Water Cooled for 35 Years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by overbored View Post
I would question the flushing with fresh water. if you do this do you use a zinc or magnesium anode. seems like magnesium would be best choice because the time the engine sits with fresh water in the system would be a lot longer then the time the engine is used with salt water. using fresh water with a zinc in the engine might be more harm then good.
Interesting point. I called boatzincs.com and asked them- they said they see no problem with what I am doing (I see they sell a mag zinc for yanmar sail drive operating in fresh water). The thing about a zinc, they will only protect a metal within a few inches of the zinc. In they engine there are a lot of parts that are well away from the zinc and do not see its protection. Also, thinking about it there are many boats that operate in both salt and nearly fresh water, but the anodes are usually all zinc. The other thing is that fresh water is much less corrosive than salt, so the anode protection is not that much of an issue with freshwater. And most engines the parts like exhaust manifold sees no protection from the zinc. I like the fact these parts are flushed of salt and see only fresh water while sitting idle for days at a time.

Last edited by casey1999; 03-12-2013 at 02:19 PM.
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Why would this be an issue? My engine (bmw d7 diesel) has two zinc anodes, and it is raw water cooled, but has been in fresh water the majority, if not the entirety, of its 32 year life. Should I replace them with magnesium for some reason??

Quote:
Originally Posted by overbored:1001477
I would question the flushing with fresh water. if you do this do you use a zinc or magnesium anode. seems like magnesium would be best choice because the time the engine sits with fresh water in the system would be a lot longer then the time the engine is used with salt water. using fresh water with a zinc in the engine might be more harm then good.
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Re: Raw Water Cooled for 35 Years?

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Originally Posted by Rhys05 View Post
Why would this be an issue? My engine (bmw d7 diesel) has two zinc anodes, and it is raw water cooled, but has been in fresh water the majority, if not the entirety, of its 32 year life. Should I replace them with magnesium for some reason??
This site has good information:
http://boatzincs.com/pdfs/Chart_B-Wh...ould_I_Use.pdf

and:
BoatZincs.com Frequently Asked Questions

I see for the internal engine zincs for yanmar, only zinc is sold, and these engines operate in a lot of fresh water only areas (great lakes). If it has worked for 32 years I am sure you are ok, and probably better off than if you had been in salt water all of that time.

Last edited by casey1999; 03-12-2013 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 03-13-2013
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Re: Raw Water Cooled for 35 Years?

I have a question.
I am running a 35 year old A4. My first inboard sinc I was a kid with an old fishing boat.
Does this A4 have internal zincs? If so where are they. I have suspected that there are some but have got conflicting answers form some locals and haven't got a manual for the engine. Any help/advise will be appreciated.
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Re: Raw Water Cooled for 35 Years?

I'm guessing that this might help:

http://l-36.com/Atomic4/a4manual2.pdf
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Re: Raw Water Cooled for 35 Years?

Quote:
Originally Posted by norahs arc View Post
I have a question.
I am running a 35 year old A4. My first inboard sinc I was a kid with an old fishing boat.
Does this A4 have internal zincs? If so where are they. I have suspected that there are some but have got conflicting answers form some locals and haven't got a manual for the engine. Any help/advise will be appreciated.
I just read through the A4 manual posted and see no zincs. Looks like direct sea water cooled. Interesting since many have had this engine for a very long time and they have not corroded through.

Found this:
http://www.moyermarine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1177

Universal never installed zincs in the Atomic 4. Their simple position seems to have been that the castings were made from a corrosive resistant alloy and that zincs were unnecessary.

We have heard of several customers installing small pencil zincs through the water jacket side plate, but to this point we have no credible evidence that these zincs have any measurable positive effect on the corrosion process.

Don

Last edited by casey1999; 03-13-2013 at 03:19 PM.
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Re: Raw Water Cooled for 35 Years?

What really matters is the alloy used in the block, the chemical content and salinity of the raw water, and the durability of the engine.

Some have a reputation for enduring. Others not so much. I've heard that older Volvo engines in brackish to salt water will often rust through in the cooling passages, and that 25-30 years is all you can expect. I don't know if that's true or not.

But for any old raw water engine, used in salt water? You'd want to disconnect the water hoses, possibly pull the water pump or thermostat, whatever you have to do on that particular engine in order to access the cooling passages and see if they are eating into the block or not. Many are surprisingly robust.

And if the PO generally kept the raw water intake closed? Remember that raw water doesn't circulate unless it is OPEN, and whatever corrosion is going to happen, will self-limit itself if the water isn't flowing and being replaced. It very well could be fine.

Only way to really find out? Get some eyes in there, or a borescope.
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