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-   -   Howes Lubricator/Diesel treatment questions (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/diesel/99739-howes-lubricator-diesel-treatment-questions.html)

L124C 05-22-2013 03:34 PM

Howes Lubricator/Diesel treatment questions
 
Has anyone used Howes? I've been using Star tron, but I thought I might try Howes. I noticed several other treatments specify they are safe for particulate filters in motors manufactured after 2007. Anyone know why? (my Yanmar is circa 1980). Howes claims "particulate filter friendly" Thoughts?

Brent Swain 05-22-2013 07:18 PM

Re: Howes Lubricator/Diesel treatment questions
 
I have had no problem with it.

miatapaul 05-23-2013 01:18 PM

Re: Howes Lubricator/Diesel treatment questions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by L124C (Post 1033990)
Has anyone used Howes? I've been using Star tron, but I thought I might try Howes. I noticed several other treatments specify they are safe for particulate filters in motors manufactured after 2007. Anyone know why? (my Yanmar is circa 1980). Howes claims "particulate filter friendly" Thoughts?

The new diesels (autos and trucks) have some pretty sophisticated emissions on them including filters, catalytic converters and often additives that are injected into the exhaust (add blue) and you do have to be careful of what you add to the fuel or you might be destroying some very expensive parts. I don't think any of these have made there way into boats, and certainly not really a concern for boaters with older engines, unless you want a single additive for boat and car/truck. VW/BMW/Mercedes are very strict on what they recommend in there new clean diesels and I beleive do not recommend any additives. I am looking at a new VW TDI and have done some research, but have not found any definitive answers. Howes seems to have a following in the trucking industry, but not sure if it really attacks the main concerns of a sailboat. For sailboats it is mainly growth, long term storage, condensation and sludge you are concerned with and injector cleaning is a bonus. For long haul trucks they burn through the fuel at a rather fast rate, so growth stability and sludge is not really an issue for them. Many sailors a tank of fuel lasts a few seasons rather than less than a day in a truck. So we may have different needs, not to say if Howes is good or not for a boat.

L124C 05-24-2013 04:25 PM

Re: Howes Lubricator/Diesel treatment questions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by miatapaul (Post 1034418)
The new diesels (autos and trucks) have some pretty sophisticated emissions on them including filters, catalytic converters and often additives that are injected into the exhaust (add blue) and you do have to be careful of what you add to the fuel or you might be destroying some very expensive parts. I don't think any of these have made there way into boats, and certainly not really a concern for boaters with older engines, unless you want a single additive for boat and car/truck. VW/BMW/Mercedes are very strict on what they recommend in there new clean diesels and I believe do not recommend any additives. I am looking at a new VW TDI and have done some research, but have not found any definitive answers. Howes seems to have a following in the trucking industry, but not sure if it really fattacks the main concerns of a sailboat. For sailboats it is mainly growth, long term storage, condensation and sludge you are concerned with and injector cleaning is a bonus. For long haul trucks they burn through the fuel at a rather fast rate, so growth stability and sludge is not really an issue for them. Many sailors a tank of fuel lasts a few seasons rather than less than a day in a truck. So we may have different needs, not to say if Howes is good or not for a boat.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. Some other labels I read indicate the product is safe for filters in motors mfg'd AFTER 2007. I'm curious why it wouldn't work in older motors, i.e., would it disintegrate filters, etc. If they are including the later models I think they would have said; " safe for all motors including those mfg'd after 2007". Howe's simply states: "particulate filter friendly formula"

Howes claims it: "Removes water, boosts power and performance, stops smoking (little hard to believe...I'll let you know!), increases MPG, cleans and lubes injectors, Extends filter life. "No gelling guaranteed or we pay the tow" (Does this include Vessel Assist?:laugher).

I use a 6 gallon tank for bay sailing, specifically so I don't have the storage issues.

L124C 05-24-2013 05:23 PM

Re: Howes Lubricator/Diesel treatment questions
 
Just read another thread on additives and came up with this review of additives. It does address one Howes product, though not specifically the one I have. Found it interesting in any event.
http://rivrdog.typepad.com/files/cop...-version-3.pdf
One review does indicate that another product is not safe for motors mfg'd after 2007. So it seems I was misreading the other labels.

L124C 10-06-2013 04:28 PM

Re: Howes Lubricator/Diesel treatment questions
 
Having used Howes for a while now, I can report a surprising result. My old Yanmar 2GM20 now cold fires instantly without any throttle. Yanmar recommends 3/4 throttle for cold start, and the motor always required it. Not any more. I can only assume there is less cylinder friction. If so, that's certainly a good thing!
On the other hand, I see no reduction in smoke, as Howes claims.

73Morgan 10-07-2013 12:28 AM

Re: Howes Lubricator/Diesel treatment questions
 
My father is a retired diesel mechanic. He always told me not to use any additives for anything, they cause more problems than they solve, there is a mouse trap for everyone. While the previous poster had some good results, if your engine is running good, why use anything. There is always a concern and confusion over compatibility. If sludge is your concern sludge settles to the bottom, I siphon out about 1/2 gallon of fuel from the bottom of the tank before the boat gets launched, and change the filters, works for me.

Ahoyhoy 10-07-2013 03:56 PM

Re: Howes Lubricator/Diesel treatment questions
 
I am an ADS certified, factory trained diesel fuel injection technician (bosch, stanadyne, denso, delphi/lucas/rotomaster) and although modern fuel systems have been designed to live with the low sulphur fuel of today, pumps and injectors manufactured with the designs which existed prior to the ultra-low sulphur fuel changes in your region are lacking in the lubricity to protect the mechanical parts of your pump, period. There are new standards of lubricity which fuel manufacturers are compelled to meet as indicated by national standards, and although they are adequate under ideal conditions, they leave little protection when the fuel is not free of contaminate which filters are not able to defend against, which may be only once in a while, but i see the results on a daily basis. $$$

L124C 10-08-2013 01:55 AM

Re: Howes Lubricator/Diesel treatment questions
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ahoyhoy (Post 1100572)
I am an ADS certified, factory trained diesel fuel injection technician (bosch, stanadyne, denso, delphi/lucas/rotomaster) and although modern fuel systems have been designed to live with the low sulphur fuel of today, pumps and injectors manufactured with the designs which existed prior to the ultra-low sulphur fuel changes in your region are lacking in the lubricity to protect the mechanical parts of your pump, period. There are new standards of lubricity which fuel manufacturers are compelled to meet as indicated by national standards, and although they are adequate under ideal conditions, they leave little protection when the fuel is not free of contaminate which filters are not able to defend against, which may be only once in a while, but i see the results on a daily basis. $$$

So, can you explain what I observed in #6?
What do you think of Howes?

Ahoyhoy 10-08-2013 12:29 PM

Re: Howes Lubricator/Diesel treatment questions
 
Can i explain why suddenly you are able to do start a 2GM20 with only idle quantity fuel delivery? Well, no, but i can assure you that a fuel conditioner will not contribute to engine oil lubricity, and then i can make wild guesses like this... Many engines do start while in idle position provided their compression is good, starter is turning at a good rate, fuel rack is free and responsive, and the clean fuel injected is properly timed and atomizing perfectly. Perhaps you just completed the final piece of the puzzle by allowing sticky injector needle valves to chatter more freely, plungers to turn easier or delivery valves to open more. It's anyone's guess why you have your current condition but something to keep in mind, that i use additives, like Howes to sometimes determine whether or not there is a problem with a fuel system by comparing the running complaint before and after a filter treatment because if freedom to move can be improved (there should be no restriction on movement anywhere in the system) then that means it was being restricted. So my concern is that you have noticed a difference in behaviour with the slicker fuel, but when it is gone will your previous condition return? That is not to say that your engine didn't run correctly before but more, what restriction was overcome which allowed for a change in behaviour? Again, more guesses, but no answers. As a tech i would want to inspect your injectors. It's quick, and often the culprit, not always, but often.


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