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Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Engines > Electric/Hybrid
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  #71  
Old 05-01-2014
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Re: Repowering with an electric engine?

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Originally Posted by christian.hess View Post
yup

there are quote a few diesel electric options out there right now but very very expensive
And they gain very little if any in efficiency over a normal diesel installation. In Europe testing was done over a multi year period with Nigel Calder was involved the entire time. Sailboats do not see the same type of gains as automobiles. Powerboats can but not sailboats. The added complexity over a diesel installation in a moist marine environment is also a negative.

And as Christian says very expensive.
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Old 05-01-2014
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Re: Repowering with an electric engine?

I have a 1972 Conyplex contest 33. I am planning on running 48 volts 200 amps max for one minute which should get me close to 14 horse power . Horses don't matter Torgue and RPM's is what I worry about.
Every thing I saw while looking at electric mentioned the same thing. You don't need as much horse power to run a boat on electric because you lose horse power through the engine/Trans to the prop. Electric is more responsive, cleaner, and more efficient. You will have to change out your prop to a 3 blade prop though which means more drag. The other side of that coin is the when the electric motor turns you actually produce power.
I bought my kit from Cloud electric. It is their electric motor kit and paid a more then reasonable price for it.
I had been researching this subject for a while and just decided to take the plunge. I am not looking to motor sail so I will be using it to get in and out of the marina I'm in. I went to the controller website last night and saw that there is a wiring kit for my particular controller for 19 dollars so I will be buying that as well instead of wiring it up myself. The only thing I want and need to find out about the electric motor when installed is just how good is how it performs going through a channel against a tide that moves quickly. I am pretty sure it will handle it but I will find that out first when I install it.


Here is a good video to watch. It is a Catamaran though so he has 2 electric drives and says he only needs half of what he has. Watch all of them because it is interesting what he says about the electric drives producing power while sailing. It makes me think I will add a resistor to my system just to dump any excess power.
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  #73  
Old 05-01-2014
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Re: Repowering with an electric engine?

I'm not against electric. We were OK with the cost, the batteries (and their replacement every 4-5 years), etc. We really tried to make it work.

It came down to range. The boat we considered doing it on is on the Chesapeake. With limited range that would mean if we get stuck up a river with no air, we won't have enough power to get back to the marina. That, in turn, would mean our sailing area would be limited to mostly the Bay and maybe a tiny bit up the rivers. That isn't why we bought the boat.

If we were retired and could sit becalmed for a day or two, that'd be no problem. I think electric is more practical if you're on the coast.
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  #74  
Old 05-01-2014
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Re: Repowering with an electric engine?

cool!

yeah I got so into searching and looking at ideal solutions with me being down here and all but it got complicated with shipping and all...

someday

post results when you get it done!

cheers
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  #75  
Old 05-01-2014
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Re: Repowering with an electric engine?

range... how is it that a fella who sailed with electric propulsion and in a ct 41, at that, was able to gain 7 kts down hill using electric propulsion in conjunction with his sails. yes formosa ct do not sail that fast..lol... and he also has sailed the coastal mexico and into sea of cortez and around. he needs not to park his huge boat in a marina to recharge.
if you guys wanna chat w ith him, go to fazepoo and speak with pitt bolinate. he HAS done it.

it seems you all equate electric propulsion with MINKOTA, the pisspoorest example.if you want to equate to a functional outboard already on market, compare with torqueedo, as there is self sustainability in that..lol
get over minkota, as that aint the way.
if pacific ocean aint enough range, mebbe an rv,.......
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  #76  
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Re: Repowering with an electric engine?

The only electric I would ever have is a pure one - no generator. I wouldn't want to carry gas for a Honda gen and certainly wouldn't pay for a diesel gen and electric drive as that is much more expensive than a new diesel by itself. A hybrid system is not worth the investment in any case as the gains are very small on a sailboat. Pure electric drive works for someone that will plug in to shore power after a daysail or weekend trip. It does not work for a longer range cruiser. Here's why:

Range - with my small diesel and a 12 gallon tank I have a 300+ mile range. 2 five gallon jugs of diesel almost doubles that range. Electric cannot come close. In the area I cruise a 2 week holiday in Desolation Sound is an impossibility without going marina to marina - one problem is there are few to be found, one of its great attractions. Our summers are known for light winds and there are narrow passes with strong currents in abundance.

Weight - one gallon of diesel = about 1000 lbs of batteries. My engine weighs under 200 lbs and even with the full fuel tank weight added in I would be grossly overweight compared to what I weigh currently and that would have a short range - see above.

Recharge - Everybody talks about regen charging but nobody will post numbers - it may work to a certain extent on a larger faster monohull or better yet multihull but it is ineffective on a smaller monohull. I would think it would be like bailing a boat with a teacup - a very small gain.

Solar - There isn't enough room on a monohull sailboat for the number of panels required for even reasonable charging of a 48 volt bank. Most cruisers struggle to charge the house bank fully with solar to meet demand. Remember because it is a 48 volt bank take the output you receive from panels at 12 volts and divide by 4.

Expense - The upkeep of a small diesel is considerable less expensive than that of an electric drive. Battery replacement about every 4 or 5 years if things go well. Equate this with normal house bank replacement at 8 years or better which rarely happens. Small diesels are both reliable and inexpensive to run for many years if maintained properly. Impellers and oil changes are not expensive.

Zeehag

Your post is worthless without solid numbers - bank size, range, and charging times/method.

The batteries we are beginning to see - LiFePO4 - hold a good promise for the future of electric drives. The cost with any appreciable range is currently about the same as a new car. But the ability to charge on a sailboat away from shorepower is still not there.
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Last edited by mitiempo; 05-01-2014 at 10:06 PM.
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Re: Repowering with an electric engine?

Brian,

While I agree with your sentiment the energy density isn't quite that bad. It is 50lbs of batteries for every 1lb of diesel. Since diesel is about 7.1lbs/gallon it works out to 350lbs of batteries for every gallon.
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  #78  
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Re: Repowering with an electric engine?

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Brian,

While I agree with your sentiment the energy density isn't quite that bad. It is 50lbs of batteries for every 1lb of diesel. Since diesel is about 7.1lbs/gallon it works out to 350lbs of batteries for every gallon.
My 12 gallons = 4200 lbs of batteries if that is the case. And since my 12 gallons are Imperial not US multiply that by 1.25 to get 5250 lbs of batteries for the same range. This on a boat that displaces 7000 lbs.

5250 divided by the weight of golf cart batteries (66 lbs) means I would need 80 batteries to get the range I have with diesel.
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Old 05-02-2014
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Re: Repowering with an electric engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
My 12 gallons = 4200 lbs of batteries if that is the case. And since my 12 gallons are Imperial not US multiply that by 1.25 to get 5250 lbs of batteries for the same range. This on a boat that displaces 7000 lbs.

5250 divided by the weight of golf cart batteries (66 lbs) means I would need 80 batteries to get the range I have with diesel.
True enough. But, if one uses the engine in their sailboat primarily just to get n and out of the harbor, then range becomes much less problematic; even more so if regenerative sailing is added to the analysis. And remember, we are talking about sailboats here.
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Re: Repowering with an electric engine?

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Originally Posted by Puddin'_Tain View Post
True enough. But, if one uses the engine in their sailboat primarily just to get n and out of the harbor, then range becomes much less problematic; even more so if regenerative sailing is added to the analysis. And remember, we are talking about sailboats here.
Agreed. I did say that electric can make sense for one who daysails or only is away from shorepower for a few days.

But for those travelling farther afield it doesn't work.

And I have yet to see actual regen stats anywhere.
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