Adding an auxiliary electric motor might be fun... - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Engines > Electric/Hybrid
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree4Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-08-2014
MedSailor's Avatar
Closet Powerboater
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Anacortes PNW
Posts: 2,551
Thanks: 81
Thanked 54 Times in 46 Posts
Rep Power: 7
MedSailor is on a distinguished road
Adding an auxiliary electric motor might be fun...

I've been thinking for a long time about adding an auxiliary electric motor, and with my new boat, I might just do it.

The PRIMARY purpose would be to silently add a couple of HP while under sail to make motor-sailing a pleasant and efficient process.

Secondary functions would include using the high torque of the electric motor in close quarters maneuvering and possibly as a get-you-home backup.

With my new boat (Nauticat 40) I have copious battery capacity, and space for more, and I have a 6kw diesel genset. 6kw happens to be about 8HP, which if you follow the formula of 0.5hp/tonne to get to 80% of hull speed, means that in theory an electric motor coupled to my 6kw genset could push me at 80% of hull speed. But that's not the primary purpose. Really what I want is to silently add a few HP under sail, and as far as getting me home, I could sail (or electric/motorsail) to the marina and use the electric motor in close for docking.

Here's what I'm imagining for how to connect it. I could use a high grip shaft collar, coupled to a sprocket and motorcycle chain. The use of roller chain (motorcycle chain) would eliminate the side loads that trash out bearings.

McMaster-Carr


The sprocket could be attached to the coupler with very little imagination I would think.


What I would need is some kind of clutch (electromagnetic?) so I could engage or disengage the setup when running the main engine. I also haven't figured out the best motor to use, though there are coutless options out there.



Does anyone have an idea what kind of clutch I could use to attach this sprocket setup to an electric motor? Any ideas on hooking it up to some kind of throttle (resistor?) Any other comments or criticisms?

MedSailor
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I have a sauna on my boat, therefore I win.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by MedSailor; 07-08-2014 at 06:14 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 07-09-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Naniamo B.C.
Posts: 1,782
Thanks: 2
Thanked 27 Times in 27 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Capt Len is on a distinguished road
Re: Adding an auxiliary electric motor might be fun...

You could drive the shaft with 3 B series V belts and an idler to tighten. The belts would be slipped on the shaft before coupling and rigged to not ride on the sheaves when slack. This is how we used to rig alternators and emergency pumps
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 07-09-2014
kd3pc's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Callao, VA
Posts: 1,340
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 8
kd3pc is on a distinguished road
Re: Adding an auxiliary electric motor might be fun...

Read nigel calder on electric motors for boats, there is a lot more to it than you would think, especially what you are calling a throttle, a lot more than a resistor. Then there are the batteries to run the motor and anchoring it, etc.

Deep pockets will help as well.

YMMV
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 07-09-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,967
Thanks: 10
Thanked 135 Times in 121 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: Adding an auxiliary electric motor might be fun...

I suppose it depends on how loud your diesel is and how often you expect to motor sail. On your hull, motor sailing may be more frequent than most.

However, getting OCD on sound insulation may be a lot less expensive. It doesn't seem like this a green initiative, since you'll charge from the genset anyway.

I hate to say this, because I don't wish it on anyone. However, after you settle in with your new boat, you are pretty likely to find all sorts of stuff that requires your money and attention that is already there. I wouldn't dive head first into optional surgery for a bit.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 07-09-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Norway
Posts: 685
Thanks: 6
Thanked 50 Times in 45 Posts
Rep Power: 9
knuterikt is on a distinguished road
Re: Adding an auxiliary electric motor might be fun...

Steyr motors have already developed a hybrid system for boats

Why don't you just order one of those
Full Hybrid Propulsion System - Diesel and Electric - Steyr Motors

J_Reid likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 07-09-2014
kd3pc's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Callao, VA
Posts: 1,340
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 8
kd3pc is on a distinguished road
Re: Adding an auxiliary electric motor might be fun...

Quote:
Originally Posted by knuterikt View Post
Steyr motors have already developed a hybrid system for boats

Why don't you just order one of those
Full Hybrid Propulsion System - Diesel and Electric - Steyr Motors

I believe this is one that Nigel Calder has been evaluating/working on for the past year to two.

It appears to be one of the best out there, right now, for sail boats. Steyr has a long, sterling reputation, going back decades. While it is about the best out there, it is not without it's challenges as described by Calder. Especially where cost or refitment is concerned. I believe Calder says that for most of us, the conventional diesel auxiliary is still the most reliable, economical and environmentally sound way to go.

He has been meticulous in accounting and measuring this system.

Deep pockets are still required, though, and long term reliability can not be examined until it has been in service longer.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 07-09-2014
MedSailor's Avatar
Closet Powerboater
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Anacortes PNW
Posts: 2,551
Thanks: 81
Thanked 54 Times in 46 Posts
Rep Power: 7
MedSailor is on a distinguished road
Re: Adding an auxiliary electric motor might be fun...

Wait! Wait! No! I'm not going all out with electric/hybrid dives! I've done lots and lots of reading on all that and am not going there. What I want to do is install a true auxiliary electric motor that could add a couple of HP quietly while under sail.

I plan to leave all the running gear exactly where it is.

What I am planning should be small in footprint and expense and should use mostly components that are already aboard. The motor itself (used forklift motors can be had cheap) and the control unit and the connection to the shaft will be added but I'm thinking it may be possible to add all these parts for less than, or near the cost of a new Max Prop (the boat has a standard 3 blade 22-inch prop).

Capt Len, thanks for the connection suggestion. Certainly a simple solution, but removing all the floorboards and soundproofing and crawling around in the bilge before starting the motor doesn't sound like fun. I'd like the setup to be easy to use.

Minnewaska, Thanks for the out of the box reply. Actually, the Ford Lehman is MUCH quieter than the perkins on my previous boat. The perkins was so loud that I pretty much never spent any time below while it was running. My new engine is slower turning and the floorboard soundproofing is much better. Currently, it's not unpleasant at all to be below with it running. What's more, is that the nauticat yard installed a second layer of soundproofing (with lead and foam) around the engine compartment that is currently aboard but not in use. I can't wait to see how quiet she is with all that installed. What's MORE is that there is a THIRD layer of soundproofing (an enclosed soundproof box) around the genset, so that puppy ought to be really quiet. I definitely should see if the engine is not unpleasant to run while motor sailling. That might just be the solution right there, with or without any more soundproofing.

Part of why I want to add electric is just because I WANT to add electric and play around with it. You're right though about many other things presenting themselves that will require my fiscal attention, but this electric drive system is going to require a lot of research and will be fun to think about and design in the mean time.

Back to clutches and drives. What about something like the clutches on engine powered watermakers and refrigeration? Could that be used with my chain and sprocket setup?


MedSailor
christian.hess likes this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I have a sauna on my boat, therefore I win.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 07-09-2014
christian.hess's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: el salvador
Posts: 3,825
Thanks: 100
Thanked 152 Times in 148 Posts
Rep Power: 2
christian.hess is on a distinguished road
Re: Adding an auxiliary electric motor might be fun...

med I started a couple of threads way back when I was looking for an inboard replacement
for my islander 36.

my issue was parts availabilty and equipment

if I was in the states I could of made it happen

in your case I would look for golf cart motors that are generally 24-48 volts, most commonly 36v...they are anywhere from 3kw to 10kw in size and power

rigging them up on your current shaft by way of pulleys and or chain drive is easy.

look up

electricmotorsport.com for parts and hardware

then get some 4 batteries...you can have a freewheeling hub type scenario without getting an expensve clutch tranny system and then engage when you want to charge up some extra juice or for when in silent mode using eletric power

my issue down here was I couldnt even get a motor to start with...

I would recomend going all dc for simplicity...

my cents

christian

BTW I reseacrhed for mooooooooooooooooooonths and came up with some very nice alternatives...but money got tight and shipping heavy stuff down here is too expensive
bandaidmd likes this.
__________________
Finally sailed!!!!!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Islander 36 refit still going on...

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 07-09-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: western LI sound, L.I., N.Y.
Posts: 478
Thanks: 1
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Rep Power: 11
HUGOSALT is on a distinguished road
Re: Adding an auxiliary electric motor might be fun...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
Wait! Wait! No! I'm not going all out with electric/hybrid dives! I've done lots and lots of reading on all that and am not going there. What I want to do is install a true auxiliary electric motor that could add a couple of HP quietly while under sail.
MedSailor
Would not involve clutches and gears...but if you are flush with electric
and only want to add a couple of hp while sailing...explore a trolling motor,
Minn Kota salt water series...can mount perm or removable and lower prop to
water in an instant. Comes in 12, 24, or 36 volts ...and very quiet.
Thinking even come with a remote. Very smart looking white motor with
carbon shaft and can use as aux. for dinghy exploring back bays or fishing.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 07-09-2014
christian.hess's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: el salvador
Posts: 3,825
Thanks: 100
Thanked 152 Times in 148 Posts
Rep Power: 2
christian.hess is on a distinguished road
Re: Adding an auxiliary electric motor might be fun...

on a 40ft motorsailor?
__________________
Finally sailed!!!!!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Islander 36 refit still going on...

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Adding a auxiliary outboard. Zuma Gear & Maintenance 25 02-04-2014 11:00 AM
is anyone using an electric motor to get out of the marina ABH3 Boyer General Discussion (sailing related) 25 03-27-2013 09:31 AM
electric motor mszczepa General Discussion (sailing related) 18 07-06-2010 06:24 PM
Adding electric compressor to engine-run fridge Bene505 Gear & Maintenance 19 03-08-2009 12:23 PM
Does anyone use a Electric Trolling Motor poopdeckpappy Gear & Maintenance 23 10-19-2007 09:08 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:52 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.