understand 12v electrical - Page 2 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Electrical Systems
 Not a Member? 
  #11  
Old 08-06-2013
SSBN506's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New Brunswick Canada
Posts: 173
Thanks: 2
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 7
SSBN506 is on a distinguished road
Re: understand 12v electrical

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Many battery monitors only work after the first SIX cycles. RTFM, please.
I have went through the manual a few times didn't say anything about six cycles. The info is very limited.

Quote:
1:Go into eng settings. adjust the capacity adjust the temperature. Press illum to finish engineering settings.
2: Do not put the battery on charge immediately.
3: apply a load to the battery by switching on lights or instruments and wait for a few min for the BM! to learn the battery's characteristics and to show a steady reading before stating charging.
Didn't get time to unplug it yesterday as the family was not interested in me messing with things on our last day off but did watch it closer. We had a 12v color connected and it was drawing 1.5 to 3 amps depending on solar input. Battery went from 100% to 85 in the first 5 min. The next 10 it went to 75% Then over the next two plus hours went from 75% to 74%. When I shut things down for the day it when up to 80% in 5 min or so.

But this is just for information I still have to reset it.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #12  
Old 08-06-2013
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,059
Thanks: 0
Thanked 68 Times in 59 Posts
Rep Power: 7
mitiempo will become famous soon enough mitiempo will become famous soon enough
Re: understand 12v electrical

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Many battery monitors only work after the first SIX cycles. RTFM, please.
I have not heard of a battery monitor needing 6 cycles to get it correct, but new batteries do need cycling several times before they are at their designed capacity.

I think the monitor is a bit too basic, built to be a price leader not the most accurate monitor available. There is not a setting for Peukert, which it claims the monitor learns but I doubt it can do this accurately. All the battery monitors I have installed - Xantrex and Victron - require an input for Peukert. If they can't find it for themselves I doubt a less expensive monitor can.

I think you get what you pay for. I recommend the Victron BMV-600 as I know it to be an accurate monitor and at $149 from Jamestown Distributors it is a real bargain.

Fryewe - you state that you have told the monitor that your battery bank is 100 AH - that should be set at the total AH of your batteries, somewhere between 200 and 240 AH.
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #13  
Old 08-07-2013
SSBN506's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New Brunswick Canada
Posts: 173
Thanks: 2
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 7
SSBN506 is on a distinguished road
Re: understand 12v electrical

I sent my problem to nasamarine to se what they had to say. Here is the response.


Quote:
Have you entered the capacity as 232Ah? Suggest you reduce this as its rare one gets 100% of rated capacity, try reducing to 90% value and try again.:
So I will give that a try also setting the AH to 208.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #14  
Old 08-07-2013
Stu Jackson's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 788
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 14
Stu Jackson is on a distinguished road
Re: understand 12v electrical

Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
I have not heard of a battery monitor needing 6 cycles to get it correct, but new batteries do need cycling several times before they are at their designed capacity.
Brian, I went back and reread my Link 2000 manual. It states that it takes at least six cycles for the CEF (Charge Efficiency Factor) to "learn the CEF". Page 22 of the manual, PDF page 21, from the Xantrex discontinued products website manual. We actually have the older Heart version of this product. Same manual.

I have always recommended that folks who are installing battery monitors download and read the Link 2000 manual, it explains a LOT of material that's missed in the Link Pro and Link Lite manuals. I haven't read the Victron manuals, but understand they're somewhat better.

Also folks should read the Gotcha topic:

For everyone installing a battery monitor: The "Gotcha Algorithm" thread, a "MUST READ"

Link-series Charging Algorithms -- The "Gotcha" Factor!

DEFAULTS are factory settings that are made to be modified to suit your setup.
__________________
Stu Jackson, C34, 1986, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #15  
Old 08-12-2013
SSBN506's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New Brunswick Canada
Posts: 173
Thanks: 2
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 7
SSBN506 is on a distinguished road
Re: understand 12v electrical

So I reduce the amp hours entered in the battery monitor from 232 to 209. This cause the charged to jump 10% from 75% to 85%. So it is looking like my new 6 volts may not be putting out the amp hours the monitor thinks they should. I assume if I dropped the amp hours to 185 or so I would count down from 100% properly.

I have contacted the battery manufacture first and will look into returning the batteries.

I am going to do one more charge from shore with the setting at 209 and se what happens. 10% off listed amp hours is normal but 20 to 25% seem to be to much in my mind.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #16  
Old 08-12-2013
hellosailor's Avatar
Plausible Deniability
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,546
Thanks: 2
Thanked 82 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
Re: understand 12v electrical

So far you've only confirmed that the batteries an dbattery monitor have different points of view. There's no reason to think the batteries would need to go back, although any battery dealer should have a load tester available to cycle and test the batteries and confirm their actual capacity. (Thousand-dollar plus computerized internal resistance testers, not just the old carbon pile load tests.)

I'd suggest you have two ways to go: Take the batteries in for testing, heavy grunt work and the risk of acid spilling and eating your cloths or something in the car (truck?).

Or, get a couple of old automobile high beams or a similar simple resistive load, and do your own real-time load tests on the batteries. With a typical 55W auto highbeam headlight (often free from the dumpster since folks tend to burn out the low beam first in dual-beam bulbs) you consume roughly (55/14.4) 3.8 amps per hour, so one of those bulbs should burn for about 26 hours to consume a real 100 amps from a battery bank. With a couple of multimeters you can confirm the amperage it is pulling and the voltage left in the battery, and you are close neough to the "nominal" 20-hour rate so thosefigures should still apply. This also gives your battery monitor a reality check versus the meters.

If the date code on the batteries (usually embossed or stamped near the top but hidden under the edge of the big label) in within the last 90 days, the odds are there's noting wrong with the batteries unless one is grossly defective.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #17  
Old 08-12-2013
SSBN506's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New Brunswick Canada
Posts: 173
Thanks: 2
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 7
SSBN506 is on a distinguished road
Re: understand 12v electrical

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
So far you've only confirmed that the batteries an dbattery monitor have different points of view. There's no reason to think the batteries would need to go back, although any battery dealer should have a load tester available to cycle and test the batteries and confirm their actual capacity. (Thousand-dollar plus computerized internal resistance testers, not just the old carbon pile load tests.)

I'd suggest you have two ways to go: Take the batteries in for testing, heavy grunt work and the risk of acid spilling and eating your cloths or something in the car (truck?).

Or, get a couple of old automobile high beams or a similar simple resistive load, and do your own real-time load tests on the batteries. With a typical 55W auto highbeam headlight (often free from the dumpster since folks tend to burn out the low beam first in dual-beam bulbs) you consume roughly (55/14.4) 3.8 amps per hour, so one of those bulbs should burn for about 26 hours to consume a real 100 amps from a battery bank. With a couple of multimeters you can confirm the amperage it is pulling and the voltage left in the battery, and you are close neough to the "nominal" 20-hour rate so thosefigures should still apply. This also gives your battery monitor a reality check versus the meters.

If the date code on the batteries (usually embossed or stamped near the top but hidden under the edge of the big label) in within the last 90 days, the odds are there's noting wrong with the batteries unless one is grossly defective.
You make sum good points. The test you suggest is basically what the battery monitor is doing from my understanding. But I se how what you suggest would be more accurate as it is not estimating. I did contact the manufacture first as I really don't what to take them out. I will se what they say before going back to the shop where I got them.

I need a proper full charge after taking 10% off the amp hours before I do anything. I have a mppt solar charger and it was still charging when I was last on so the batteries were not full. Not much sun the last few weeks. So I will go a charge of the land charger again and test.

Last edited by SSBN506; 08-12-2013 at 02:05 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #18  
Old 08-12-2013
Stu Jackson's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 788
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 14
Stu Jackson is on a distinguished road
Re: understand 12v electrical

Have you considered this? From the Ample Power Primer.

Breaking in New Wet Cell Batteries: "Breaking In" New Wet Cell Batteries
__________________
Stu Jackson, C34, 1986, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #19  
Old 08-12-2013
chucklesR's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Pasadena Md - Magothy side
Posts: 5,977
Thanks: 10
Thanked 30 Times in 30 Posts
Rep Power: 9
chucklesR is a jewel in the rough chucklesR is a jewel in the rough chucklesR is a jewel in the rough
Re: understand 12v electrical

Changing the AH capacity of the bank from the 232 'manufacture' capacity to 209 AH changed your state of charge by 10% because you dropped your capacity 10%.

Put it back to 232 AH, run a equalization process via your charger (overcharge them on purpose)... and above all else do some reading on how batteries work.

If I can learn it, so can you.
__________________
Lessons learned are opportunities earned.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #20  
Old 08-12-2013
SSBN506's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: New Brunswick Canada
Posts: 173
Thanks: 2
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 7
SSBN506 is on a distinguished road
Re: understand 12v electrical

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
Have you considered this? From the Ample Power Primer.

Breaking in New Wet Cell Batteries: "Breaking In" New Wet Cell Batteries
My understanding is it should only be 5% to 10% off new. But I suppose if you take off 10% for new and another 10% because you never get the full rating that could be the 20 or so present I am missing.

It makes me a bit nervous discharging to 10.5 like they suggest 11.9 is empty 10.5 is dead isn't it?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Because some of you will understand (sailing with dog related)... josrulz General Discussion (sailing related) 9 10-25-2011 09:08 AM
Trying to understand boat registration nsweeting General Discussion (sailing related) 8 09-30-2011 04:54 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:32 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.