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  #1  
Old 09-25-2013
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Upgrade proposasl for classic 1/2/BOTH, dual battery setup

Folks

The boat is a mid 80's Cal. Original electrical. Dual group 27s with the classic 12B0 sw wired as both a USE and CHARGE (alternator) selector. I want to fuse the batteries, add a proper solar controller, one thing leads to another ... you know this goes.

I have read up on all the good info MaineSail, Stu Jackson, s/v Smitty and several of you all have provided. Find attached a JPG of my plan.

My questions/issues...

- the existing AWG 2 (to the 12BO sw) seems undersized? Proper size?

- is the ACR wired and fused correctly? Must it be fused on both sides? Can I loose the fuse on the left?

- should the solar panel be fused?

- anything else look out or order?

Thanks a bunch
Attached Thumbnails
Upgrade proposasl for classic 1/2/BOTH, dual battery setup-dominoelectrical.jpg  

Last edited by WoobaGooba; 09-25-2013 at 12:23 AM. Reason: Spelling error
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Old 09-25-2013
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re: Upgrade proposasl for classic 1/2/BOTH, dual battery setup

It looks good others may have better pointers for any changes

The ground wire on the ACR just provides it a 0 volt reference and does not pass any current the fuse is a just in case something bizarre happens


I have the same GV-5 and i believe they said 5 amp on the fuse ?
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Old 09-25-2013
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re: Upgrade proposasl for classic 1/2/BOTH, dual battery setup

What Tommays says on the ACR -
I'd make that a 7 amp fuse on the solar, 60w can make 5 normally on a good day.

I also recommend you make it one big bank instead of two mediocre ones, add a monitor and have it disconnect at 11v so you can still start if needed. Or better yet find a place and put a minimal group 24 battery in as reserve/start.

360 ah (both batts as a single bank) gives you 180 useable ah's without a cycle; that's two or three days of hanging out without running the engine (the solar at 60w is just a large trickle charger, it might kick in 20-25 ah a day).
To me it's all about hang time on the hook.

That's a nice .jpg of a standard 2 bank setup. It'd be cool if you 'corrected' it and reposted so other folks can use it.
Of course input from the experts might spot more to change

If you are going to go 'new' you might as well spend the bucks for a monitor and protect the investment - both with fuses and with knowledge.

Your existing #2 wire gauge is borderline, depends on amp draw. If it's sound leave it.
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Old 09-25-2013
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Re: Upgrade proposal for classic 12BO, dual battery setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by WoobaGooba View Post
Folks

The boat is a mid 80's Cal. Original electrical. Dual group 27s with the classic 12B0 sw wired as both a USE and CHARGE (alternator) selector. I want to fuse the batteries, add a proper solar controller, one thing leads to another ... you know this goes.

I have read up on all the good info MaineSail, Stu Jackson, s/v Smitty and several of you all have provided. Find attached a JPG of my plan.

My questions/issues...

- the existing AWG 2 (to the 12BO sw) seems undersized? Proper size?

- is the ACR wired and fused correctly? Must it be fused on both sides? Can I loose the fuse on the left?

- should the solar panel be fused?

- anything else look out or order?

Thanks a bunch
2Ga is better than 4GA and you should be fine. Your starter will experience more VD than with 1/0 but should do okay just be sure all connections are clean and tight..

As for the ACR simply bump the leads to 2GA and use the main battery fuses. This saves you money over buying two additional fuses and holders. These fuses are to protect the wire NOT the ACR so if you are using the same size wire as the main bank then you can use the same fuse too.

If wiring the ACR with solar I recommend using the SI (start isolation) feature and I don't see that shown...


Depending upon the run your solar wire is likely too small for top perforamnce. 16GA should not be used and 14GA is usually the bare minimum we use but for the panel to the GV I'd shoot for 10GA and controller to bank I'd shoot for 10GA as well.

Your group 27 batteries are not 180Ah. They have a "Reserve Capacity" or RC of 180 minutes at 25A before they are at 10.5V... Reserve capacity and ampere hours are NOT one in the same. There is simply no such thing as a 180Ah group 27 battery. If you did your calcs on 180Ah you will need to re-run them, if you can find out the actual 20 hour Ah capacity..

A general rule, when buying deep cycle batteries, is to NOT buy batteries that do not publish a 20 hour AH capacity.

Your batteries are likely under 100Ah's each, most group 27's are in the 80-100Ah range.. Having tried to get this information out of Interstate in the past has resulted in multiple answers from multiple tech support folks NONE of their answers agreeing with one another. I have had them tell me 125Ah's, 90Ah's and 100Ah's all for the same SRM-27 battery.....
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 09-25-2013 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 09-26-2013
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re: Upgrade proposasl for classic 1/2/BOTH, dual battery setup

Thanks All

Updated schematic attached. Looks better?

@chucklesR.

No room to combine existing batteries and add a start bat. Maybe a Victron later.

@MaineSail.

Very happy the existing AWG 2 can stay

I don't know where my 180 ah number came from, but a check of the Interstate site indeed indicates the bats are in the 100 ah range (20 h at 5A load). My house loading is modest: LED lights, GPS, NMEA 2K instr, VHF. stereo. No refrig, no windlass, etc.

Question: I noted in a lot of your pics you do not install the battery box covers? I ask as I am considering using the MRBFs, which won't fit when my covers are installed.
Attached Thumbnails
Upgrade proposasl for classic 1/2/BOTH, dual battery setup-dominoelectrical.jpg  

Last edited by WoobaGooba; 09-26-2013 at 02:20 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 09-26-2013
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re: Upgrade proposasl for classic 1/2/BOTH, dual battery setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by WoobaGooba View Post
Thanks All

Updated schematic attached. Looks better?

@chucklesR.

No room to combine existing batteries and add a start bat. Maybe a Victron later.

@MaineSail.

Very happy the existing AWG 2 can stay

I don't know where my 180 ah number came from, but a check of the Interstate site indeed indicates the bats are in the 100 ah range (20 h at 5A load). My house loading is modest: LED lights, GPS, NMEA 2K instr, VHF. stereo. No refrig, no windlass, etc.

Question: I noted in a lot of your pics you do not install the battery box covers? I ask as I am considering using the MRBFs, which won't fit when my covers are installed.

Kind of hard to see what I am taking a pic of with the cover on...

Also in many installations the battery compartment is dedicated to only the batteries and in those situations a cover is not required if the compartment has it's own cover..

Also on a large majority of boats the builder has left no additional height to fit covers, thus the compartment cover has to make do....... As an example our 2005 Catalina 310 sipped from the factory with two 4D batteries but no acid containment and no covers. The battery compartment was open to the bilge a clear violation of ABYC standards yet the boat proudly flew an ABYC sticker...... In my installs FLA batts do get acid containment boxes just not always lids because they don't often fit.....
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 09-26-2013 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 09-26-2013
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re: Upgrade proposasl for classic 1/2/BOTH, dual battery setup

OK, that explains all the strapped down bats w/o covers. Thanks.

I have room to install the covers...do you prefer the MRBF w/o covers or ANL fusing w/ bat cover installed?
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Old 03-02-2014
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re: Upgrade proposasl for classic 1/2/BOTH, dual battery setup

About to wire this up. Pic of the mockup is attached.

Couple questions...

1. The ACR Start Isolation. My batteries and the fusing etc are forward. Acceptable to run the SI wire just to the common post on the midships 12BO switch (which is wired with 2 gauge to the starter)?

2. Calling MainSail

The copper bus bar in this pic ... Close Up With Covers Removed photo - Compass Marine photos at pbase.com

That be 1" by 1/8 stock?

Thanks
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Old 03-02-2014
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re: Upgrade proposasl for classic 1/2/BOTH, dual battery setup

Quote:
Originally Posted by WoobaGooba View Post
About to wire this up. Pic of the mockup is attached.

Couple questions...

1. The ACR Start Isolation. My batteries and the fusing etc are forward. Acceptable to run the SI wire just to the common post on the midships 12BO switch (which is wired with 2 gauge to the starter)?

2. Calling MainSail

The copper bus bar in this pic ... Close Up With Covers Removed photo - Compass Marine photos at pbase.com

That be 1" by 1/8 stock?

Thanks
The SI wire is a simple trigger to open the relay during starting. It can be connected behind the momentary start button or to the wire that goes to the starter solenoid engage terminal.. When you press the start button the relay drops out within milliseconds isolating the two banks. When you let off it automatically re-engages.

This is more of an issue when you have solar because the banks can be combined when you start the motor. This just helps the relay last longer by not passing large staring current across it. 99% of them I see installed on solar don't use this, and the relays still don't fail, but it is a good idea.


Yes 1" X 1/8" copper will be fine. I get my copper flat stock from McMaster Carr.
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 03-02-2014 at 04:25 PM.
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