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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 06-29-2010
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While you could go without a charge controller, provided the panel was sized properly, you probably would regret it.

First, as you said, in shaded situation or on cloudy days, the panel would be less effective than it would be with an MPPT type charge controller.

Second, some panels will discharge at night, since they don't have a blocking diode. Adding the diode will cost you about .75 volts in output... using a charge controller, which will prevent the panels from self-discharging at night, will not require a blocking diode installed, and increase the overall output of the panel a bit.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2010
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Thank you sirs.
FWIW I believe that the Link 2000 has been discontinued.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2010
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You will avoid many wasted hours of charging via the alternator if you follow the 80 - 50 rule (start charging at 50% and only try to go up to 80%). Don't just charge every day needed or not. You will probably save on diesel enough to pay for the monitoring system if you charge when needed as opposed to a daily schedule.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 06-30-2010
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I'd point out that you will want to charge the batteries up to 100% at least ocassionally. If you do not, they will start to sulfate.
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
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Old 06-30-2010
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...good to mention that. Proper battery maintenance - equalization, float charging, etc. is another important topic net yet discussed here. Proper technique depends on the battery type selected, of course.
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Old 06-30-2010
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You guys are definitely making me a believer in the battery monitors. I was thinking they make sense anyway. Looks like they are pretty easy to install and well worth it.

I was looking at the manual for the Victron BMV. Interesting how the device works by just essentially monitoring current/voltage and using a sophisticated equation for capacity.
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Old 07-01-2010
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Ample Power Company Home Page, Tech Tab, download the Ample Power Primer, great battery information.

Maine Sail's approach is called an energy budget and is basically your "bank book" for what you take out.

What you put back IN is way different, and the cruiser's 80/50 rule makes a lot of sense, 'cuz that last 15% takes forever due to battery acceptance:

We've had some discussions about battery acceptance (search on "acceptance") in the past. I thought it might be helpful to describe just what happens, step-by-step when charging after, say, a simple day sail.

The battery acceptance drops off the ability to recharge, to an incredibly low rate of charge as the bank gets fuller and nearest to full. Many times, now based on my Link 2000 experiences, it takes almost overnight to fully recharge a bank.

What goes OUT of your house bank becomes easy to learn from the Energy Budget previously discussed and posted. It's what goes back IN that most people are missing, and relates to the state of charge of your house bank in a very direct manner.

What I've seen, for example is this, from our Link 2000:

--- Return from a day sail, bank is down 15 amp hours, plug into shore power with our 75 amp charger, batteries will only ACCEPT 15 amps (360 AH house bank, they're pretty fully charged if only 15 ah down)

--- Most people will then assume that it will take an hour to replace the 15 amp hours at 15 amps of charge

--- NOT!

--- As the batteries absorb that 15 amp charge, they get fuller

--- The charge RATE goes down to 10 amps after 15 or 20 minutes and the bank is now down to 10 amp hours down

--- Now, it should only take another hour to charge those minus 10 amp hours at 10 amps -- wrong assumption again; we're now up to an hour and twenty minutes to fully charge, right?

--- NOT again, because this keeps recurring

That's why a full charge takes a LOT longer that most people expect.

What goes OUT is easy, what goes BACK takes MUCH, MUCH longer. That last 15% to 20% takes a long time because of the REALITY of battery acceptance.

Please believe me, folks, because I see this all the time now that I have the Link 200 installed and working.

Please note that this true with alternators as well as shorepower chargers. Battery acceptance usually "rules" the charging regimen, so even with 100A alternators or shorepower chargers in excess of 40 A, the battery acceptance will determine the amount of charge that can go back into a house bank, usually around a max of 50A for a 400 ah bank. And it "tapers off" as the bank gets fuller as noted above.

This is why people say the BEST investment for un-knowledgeable and knowledgeable skippers alike is to buy a battery monitor FIRST. Wish I did, because I'd been chronically UNDERCHARGING my house bank, even after all the spouting I do here and on other forums!

Please, believe it!

For a parallel discussion of how much comes OUT, please see the Energy Budget topic, here: Energy Budget

PS You've just gotten the entire course on how to run a boat electrical system (other than battery switching) in one two page thread. Congratulations.
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Old 07-01-2010
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LOL... How much did it cost you in dead batteries???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson View Post
This is why people say the BEST investment for un-knowledgeable and knowledgeable skippers alike is to buy a battery monitor FIRST. Wish I did, because I'd been chronically UNDERCHARGING my house bank, even after all the spouting I do here and on other forums!
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
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her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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Old 07-02-2010
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dawg - one round, (3) 130 ah wet cells - yet to be purchased, I'm limping along but sorry that I have to run my engine the way they did in the olden daze, every morning! That really s*cks.
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Old 07-04-2010
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If using wet cells plan on max acceptance of about 25% of Ah rating so. Most recommend an alt of 20-40% of bank capacity.

650 Ah bank = 162 amp alt: This is not going to happen easily on a small motor so charge times to 80% will take a while.

325 Ah bank = 81 amps This is achievable on a small motor with a 100 amp alt.. Going bigger on the alt is fine as it works it less hard and never puts out full "spec" when hot..


Being your basic Luddite, this electrical 'stuff' perplexes me. I have a 180 Ah charger running 4 X 130 Ah, deep-cycle, sealed batteries.

Are you saying the best I will get is about 45Ah recharge rate?
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