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Xantrex Echo Charger Rant

34K views 55 replies 13 participants last post by  Davil 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi All,

For nearly six years I have been conversing with Xantrex and asking them to make important changes to the Echo Charger manual. Quite often I have had to spend time trouble shooting a device that is working properly but because the owners manual is INCORRECT, POORLY WRITTEN, MISLEADING and MISSING adequate WIRING DIAGRAMS customers have had to pony up money for me to tell them their device is either fine but the XANTREX manual is wrong or wired incorrectly because the owners manual is completely lacking. :mad:

Over the last two years or so I have spoken with Xantrex multiple times documenting changes that need to occur in this manual. I have spoke with Mariana twice, she is their head of technical support and numerous tech support folks. I have spoken with service reps in Indiana and also Prashant one of lead tech guys up in BC.

Promises have been made and yet its now been nearly TWO years and the horribly written manual is still UNCHANGED!

I told them today that I was at my wits end and was taking this to the net to clear things up for users who happen across my post. So here I am.

The Facts:

1) The manual is VERY, VERY unclear that this device MUST be fed from the HOUSE bank and that ALL charge sources, solar, wind or alternator MUST be attached to the house bank. Competent installers know this but DIY's RARELY pick up on this.

This device should NOT be used with a factory wired 1/2/BOTH/OFF switch where the alternator feeds back through the starter cable. The Alternator MUST be re-routed to the house bank for the Echo Charger to work properly.

2) The Echo Charger does NOT EVER work BACKWARDS and WILL NOT work in reverse. If your starting bank is wired to position #2 on the battery switch and the charge sources are feeding it first because of the battery switch position, eg: factory wiring scenario, the Echo Charger will do NOTHING other than sit there and look pretty.

3) I will quote the manual here:

Xantrex said:
When the input voltage is 13.0/25.5 volts DC or higher, echo-charge automatically switches ON. The LED glows a steady green.
So far so good but the input voltage for the Echo is ALWAYS measured at the HOUSE bank therefore ALL charge sources must be fed to the HOUSE bank first.

Xantrex said:
When the input voltage is lower than 13.0/25.5 volts, the echo-charge automatically switches OFF, and the LED blinks green.
Again this is correct information. When the house bank voltage drops below 13.0 Volts the unit turns off.

Additionally the unit NEVER turns off otherwise!!! This is NOT made clear and should be! The Echo DOES NOT turn off when the start battery is full as many owners AND professional installers think it does.

13+ volts is ON, less than 13 volts is OFF. The state of charge of the start or reserve battery DOES NOT turn the device on or off UNLESS it is greater than a 10V difference and then the Echo shuts off or won't turn on at all. They NEED to make this clear that the Echo does NOT turn off when the start battery is "full"..

Back to the manual:

Xantrex said:
If the input voltage is above 14.4 volts (or 28.8), output will be limited to a maximum of 14.4/28.8 volts.
This is accurate and good because who wants to feed a fully charged battery at 14.5-14.8 volts despite the "low current".. The limit of 14.4 volts is a good one.

Xantrex said:
When it reaches 14.4/28.8 volts, the charge current will decrease, maintaining a float condition. The starter battery will be fully charged without overcharging.
This is a bold faced MISLEADING statement and, as I see it, a LIE. Current is controlled/dictated by the battery receiving the charge current. This is based on SOC, and the limiting voltage of the charge source. Simple stuff.

You can have a battery at 14.4V & 80% SOC accepting 14A and that same battery at 99.5% SOC & 14.4V accepting .3A.. NOTHING HAS CHANGED OTHER THAN THE BATTERIES SOC TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN!! This is not float this is natural charge acceptance behavior at work........

Calling a decrease in charge current a "float condition" is actually a LIE, Xantrex knows this! How do I know? Because I have discussed it at length with them on multiple occasions.. They acknowledge the inaccuracies yet still don't care to change the manual....

Float charging is a voltage reduction. The Echo Charger DOES NOT drop to a float voltage independent of the HOUSE bank. It follows the charge profile of the house bank.

House at absorption = Echo at absorption
House at float = Echo also at float voltage

So in summary:

1) The Echo DOES NOT shut off when the start battery is full.

2) Charge sources like wind, solar, alternator and charger need to be fed directly to the house bank! A wiring diagram is needed.

3) The Echo Charger is a ONE WAY device. Senses voltage FROM the house bank TO the starter bank. It will NOT work backwards.

4) The Echo Charger does not enter a float mode when the start battery is "full".....

Hopefully Xantrex will FIX the misleading and incomplete manual..:mad: I guess after waiting and asking for these fixes for two years I could be considered impatient?:D Not!!!
 
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#2 ·
I Do NOT Agree

Maine,

As you know, I deeply respect your skills and your opinion....with just a couple of exceptions (like the need to separate completely house and start battery banks).

However, I do not agree at all with your characterization of the Xantrex EchoCharge device.

I have one on my own boat, and have carefully watched it's operation over the past five years or so. Including most every day. Including today.

My Victron Multi-Plus was in the "repeated absorption" mode, putting 14.5 VDC into the house batteries. The charge on the start battery, occasioned by the EchoCharge, was 13.6 VDC....a proper float voltage.

I have watched the EchoCharge when in the equalizing mode...over 15.5V going into the house batteries. The EchoCharge never put more than about 13.6 volts into the start battery.

On my boat, and on a number of client boats on which I have installed the EchoCharge, I find it absolutely flawless. It works perfectly...does not overcharge the start battery, and just sits there and does it's job as it's supposed to.

Xantrex, by the way, bought this device from another company and, thankfully, has resisted the temptation to change it. As far as I know, anyway. It's one of the very few Xantrex devices that I can and do recommend and install.

By the way, I completely agree re: the instructions: they need to make the connection info more clear.

Bottom line: Yes, the EchoCharge is a "voltage-follower device", but it is a VRD with smarts. It won't harm your start battery and, if properly connected (which is VERY VERY easy) it will just do its thing and you don't have to worry anymore about your start battery.

Bill
 
#4 ·
On my boat, and on a number of client boats on which I have installed the EchoCharge, I find it absolutely flawless. It works perfectly...does not overcharge the start battery, and just sits there and does it's job as it's supposed to.

Xantrex, by the way, bought this device from another company and, thankfully, has resisted the temptation to change it. As far as I know, anyway. It's one of the very few Xantrex devices that I can and do recommend and install.

By the way, I completely agree re: the instructions: they need to make the connection info more clear.

Bottom line: Yes, the EchoCharge is a "voltage-follower device", but it is a VRD with smarts. It won't harm your start battery and, if properly connected (which is VERY VERY easy) it will just do its thing and you don't have to worry anymore about your start battery.

Bill
Bill,

I know you and I have discussed this before and both seen different results from the Echo? I am going to remove my part about the float, for now, even though I just witnessed it this morning. I want to do a full controlled bench test and will have one soon as I have an install to do with one.

I don't disagree that ti is a great device but do think the manual SUCKS and I've come across to many owners baffled on this install that does not need to be so difficult..

Will let you know after I finish my bench test.. The one I had on my own boat followed the house bank and I doubt Xantrex made any changes from the Heart Interface days..
 
#3 ·
I'm an idiot... what regulates the charge going into the house bank? Is there a seperate device there, or do the individual chargers (alternator/solar panel/wind generator) have to monitor their own voltage seperately?
 
#5 ·
EchoCharge Bench Tests 02/24/11

Maine,

Happened to have a spare EchoCharge on hand, so did my own bench tests this morning.

These are indicative, not definitive since I didn't have the "right" batteries or enough time available.

For the "house bank", I used two 6V gelled golf-carts in series. These are 14 years old and are in pretty fair shape. They were not fully charged.

For the "start battery", I used a small 18AH West Marine AGM. It's about 3 years old and in fair shape. Also, not fully charged to begin the test.

Voltmeter was a Fluke 189. Ammeter was a Mastech MS-2108 clamp-type.

At the start, the resting voltages were 12.736 for the gels and 12.672 for the little AGM.

Note that voltages thruout are a bit higher than they would be with flooded cells, since both gels and AGMs typically have higher voltages.

Here are a couple of pix of the setup, and the results.

EchoChargeTest_0014

EchoChargeTest_0016

Voltage delivered to the "start" battery was never more than 14.4, even when charging voltage was near 15.

The multiple readings at the same indicated time were because I varied the charging voltage to see what the EchoCharge would do. Then, between times, I left the charging voltage at 14.8.

Not sure what all this means, yet.

My EchoCharge had the Heart Interface name on it. Xantrex may or may not have fiddled with the circuitry over the years....don't know for sure.

FWIW,

Bill
 
#22 ·
Re: EchoCharge Bench Tests 02/24/11

Maine,

Happened to have a spare EchoCharge on hand, so did my own bench tests this morning.

These are indicative, not definitive since I didn't have the "right" batteries or enough time available.

For the "house bank", I used two 6V gelled golf-carts in series. These are 14 years old and are in pretty fair shape. They were not fully charged.

For the "start battery", I used a small 18AH West Marine AGM. It's about 3 years old and in fair shape. Also, not fully charged to begin the test.

Voltmeter was a Fluke 189. Ammeter was a Mastech MS-2108 clamp-type.

At the start, the resting voltages were 12.736 for the gels and 12.672 for the little AGM.

Note that voltages thruout are a bit higher than they would be with flooded cells, since both gels and AGMs typically have higher voltages.

Here are a couple of pix of the setup, and the results.

EchoChargeTest_0014

EchoChargeTest_0016

Voltage delivered to the "start" battery was never more than 14.4, even when charging voltage was near 15.

The multiple readings at the same indicated time were because I varied the charging voltage to see what the EchoCharge would do. Then, between times, I left the charging voltage at 14.8.

Not sure what all this means, yet.

My EchoCharge had the Heart Interface name on it. Xantrex may or may not have fiddled with the circuitry over the years....don't know for sure.

FWIW,

Bill
I know it didn't matter for your test, but so that others know, you should not, according to Xantrex, use the Echo Charge with different type batteries as you did. At least that is what they say.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Bill,

I just looked at your data and it appears to be what I have seen. The Echo seems to have between a .35-.45 voltage drop of some sort? So when the house bank is below its limiting voltage of 14.4V the Echo is usually outputting about .35-.45 volts less. It is interesting that it only had to limit the voltage once at 11:20 #1 and it capped it at 14.1volts and was outputting only .38A.

11:20 #2 Your seeing 14.4V input/13.97 Out .18A= .43 VD
12:20 #1 Your seeing 14.73V input/14.38 Out .1A = .35 VD
12:20 #2 Your seeing 14.38V input/14.03 Out .09A= .35 VD
12:20 #3 Your seeing 14.06V input/13.69 Out .04A= .37 VD

As I mentioned it looks more like a voltage drop of some sort rather than a true electronically controlled or dictated "float"... 0.1A acceptance would put any good charger into a voltage float mode and we're seeing over 14V at just .09A of current? Not really a true float?

As I said the manual is odd, and so is the information, or lack there of, behind it. Either way still a good device and even if it was doing 14.4 it would not "ruin" batts but I still don't see it doing a true "electronically controlled" float voltage...

 
#7 ·
MS, I had a similar "issue" with a good friend when he first purchased his Duo Charge a few years ago. And we also ran into this when folks purchased their Link Pros and Link Lites. In those cases, I recommended that they download and review the Link 2000 manual, which provided a ton more information as to how they really work for both the wiring and the old Gotcha algorithm. I believe Xantrex, in their infinite stupid reasoning, has now removed the older manuals from their website, which makes helping people that much harder. I have no idea why these corporate trogs remove valuable stuff from their websites - it's not like it's killing their damned bandwidth. If only they'd look at customer feedback positively instead of ignoring it.
 
#15 ·
They're still there Stu. Discontinued Power Accessories

When I am searching for a manual I don't go to Xantrex directly, but search google for "Xantrex link 10 manual" for example, and go to the link at Xantrex directly from the search results. Saves navigating difficult sites.
Thanks, Brian.
 
#9 ·
Brian,

Ain't that the truth? Most of the vendor websites are so damned convoluted that you can't find what you're looking for without spending an inordinate amount of time, and raising the frustration level!

Some of these folks turn out good products, but websites ain't amongst them :)

Thank heavens for Google.

Bill
 
#10 ·
Another Data Point

Maine,

Here's another data point:

After sitting overnite with the EchoCharge connected to both battery banks but no charging current on, voltages this morning are:

Gel-cell house battery bank: 13.02

AGM start battery: 13.02

Charge current from the EchoCharge to the AGM battery: 0.25A

Because the resting voltage of the gels is above 12.9 or so, the EchoCharge light has been on all night and the device is still active, putting a tiny charge into the AGM "start battery".

Later today I plan to test the setup by putting a really high voltage on the gels for a short time, and see what the EchoCharge passes thru.

Stay tuned :)

Bill
 
#11 ·
OK, here we go. Here is the latest series of tests.

http://wdsg.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=224

The only difference in setup from yesterday is that the 3nd column shows "DC Amps to the House Bank" ...as supplied by the power supply...not the amps actually going into the EchoCharge.

The power supply used was a Mastech HY-5020E capable of putting out 0-50VDC at up to 20 amps. Maximum I could get it to when attached to the gelled bank was 16.0 volts, which is shown in the table.

As you can see, once the voltage reached and exceeded 15.0 VDC, the EchoCharge would not output more than 14.5 volts...even with 16.0 volts in. This parallels the experience with the EchoCharge on my boat whenever I am equalizing my batteries at 15.5 to 16.5VDC.

So....apparently, as you have noted, the Echo charge pretty much follows the input voltage, less approximately 0.4V, until the input voltage reaches around 15, whence it "cuts off" any further voltage increase to the start battery.

This is just fine for flooded and AGM batteries, which are typically undercharged anyway. Higher charging voltages are better, up to a point, as others have noted, including Trojan battery engineers.

Would be most interested in the results of your bench tests, Maine.

Bill
 
#12 · (Edited)
Would be most interested in the results of your bench tests, Maine.

Bill
No need to test when you have confirmed what I originally wrote and observed. Thanks!:D

The Echo does not do "float" in the traditional sense. It may look like that due to a voltage drop but the manual is still incorrect in stating that a "low current" represents a "float condition". Float is a voltage parameter. You can have 13.4 volts and .25 amps and no battery gassing or 14.5 volts and .25A and still have gassing. Same amps flowing but different voltages causing differing effects to the electrolyte.

Your tests have pretty much confirmed what I knew, it is a voltage follower and also a voltage limiter but does not do an electronically controlled "float voltage" it merely drops some voltage so it may look like it is floating when in fact it is merely dropping some voltage across it....

P.S. One side effect of your test is that it CLEARLY shows what VOLTAGE (read PRESSURE) will do to AMPS (read FLOW) into a battery. Increase the pressure and more amps will flow, even into a full or near full battery.

This is why the external regulator folks were able to be so successful when alternators used put out just 13.8 Volts and the externals would do 14.6-14.8+.

Now that most all stock alts put out 14.4-14.6 not any real "speed" difference between dumb and smart unless you crank the voltage on the smart one..
 
#13 ·
Yep, all good. Still would be interested to see what results you might get...if you have time.

Note that all the way from 13.0 to 16.0 volts input to the EchoCharge, it's charging current output varied by only about 350 ma.

Also, "float" can mean different things to different battery chemistries. And, it can differ according to your preference with the same chemistry.

For example, while 13.2-13.6 VDC is the usual float voltage for flooded T-105s, I'm using much higher voltages on my T-105s with essentially positive results. The Trojan engineers say that most chargers have too low a float voltage, and too low charging voltages, probably because of legal worries.

Since I reset my Victron MultiPlus charger about six months ago, I've noticed NO additional water requirements for the higher bulk, absorption, repeated aborption, and float voltages. On the other hand, I HAVE on occasion found batteries running dry when being maintained at the lower recommended float voltage of 13.2. I can only assume that this is due to the overall health of the battery, and that higher voltages lead to improved overall health.

Amaaaazing stuff, no?

Bill
 
#16 ·
No, not at all :)

I set my voltages as follows:

Bulk and acceptance charging: 14.5 VDC

Float voltage: 14.0 VDC

Note that the Victron charger I'm using has two types of "float" voltages.

One is a "high float". Another is a "low float".

The Victron "low float voltage" applies after awhile when there's no activity. This, with the software in use, is 13.2 VDC and is not adjustable.

There is also a "repeated absorption cycle". I set mine to revert to 14.5VDC for 30 minutes every other day. Kinda gives the batteries a little wake-up call :)

My batteries all have WaterMiser caps.

Bill
 
#18 ·
Yes, there could be.

An ACR or "charging relay" simply connects two batteries together. It's a relay, and may or may not have smarts to limit amperage, inrush current, etc. When the ACR is connected, it's a two-way bridge -- current may flow in either direction.

The EchoCharge and the DuoCharge are voltage-follower devices which are one-way devices. And, they have current limits -- 15A for the EchoCharge and 30A for the DuoCharge. The more expensive DuoCharge is also programmable in certain parameters, while the EchoCharge doesn't offer any user-programmable functions.

For most sailors, the EchoCharge is more than enough to maintain the start battery. Typically, it takes less than 0.5 amp hours to start the small or medium-size diesel. This energy is replaced in very short order. And, unless there are heavy loads being put on the start battery other than the starter itself, then 15A is more than adequate.

For some power boats with large diesels and with big fans connected to the start battery, the continuous draw might exceed 15A, so the DuoCharge will do the trick up to 30A or so.

Bill
 
#19 ·
For some power boats with large diesels and with big fans connected to the start battery, the continuous draw might exceed 15A, so the DuoCharge will do the trick up to 30A or so.

Bill
Sterling Power is also making some pretty neat battery to battery chargers that can be programmed for different chemistry banks..

Sterling Battery to Battery Chargers (B2B's)
 
#20 ·
that's what I'm interested in finding out more about. This Sterling Power ProCharge-B echo charger. Anyone install one or own one?

I have their combi and the thing is quiet and I like it. I was thinking about adding an "echo charger" or an "on the run" boost charging source for when I'm not plugged into AC.

ProCharge-B opinions anyone?
 
#21 · (Edited)
Decent low cost external regulators. The wiring is a little more tricky and the manual leaves a lot to be desired, but they work.. I generally prefer the options that Balmar offers in an external regulator but the Pro-Charge B is a good bare bones value. The ProReg D is a better unit than the Proreg B for not that much more money but neither compare or have the features and vast programmability that the Balmar regs do..
 
#24 · (Edited)
Sorry if zombie resurrection is frowned upon here, oldie but goodie.

Quick note: the Sterling ProCharge isn't an Alt VR, but battery-to-battery, just in case others got confused like me.

My interest in the (ex-Heart) Xantrex Echo Charger is based on the fact that it seems to be a more sophisticated and efficient version of the old split-charge blocking diodes.

I actually got here investigating the use of intelligent step-up/down DCDC battery chargers - which are also **one-way-only**.

Most isolator/combiner VSR/ACR solutions seem to allow current to flow either way, they just open/close the connection based on voltage cutoffs, even if they aren't dual-sense.

I'm currently looking at units that ensure one-way current flow only.

I believe the Xantrex EC works this way, a charge source raising voltage on the target bank just gets ignored, banks remain isolated. Someone please confirm this?

Most DCDC chargers are pretty pricey, and in general the simplicity and reputation of the EC makes it seem more likely to last a long time, looks pretty bullet-proof.

My main question is, are there **other** modern one-way flow isolating devices I should look at?

Power-Gate battery isolators from PerfectSwitch look fantastic, endorsed by EnerSys/Odyssey, but also quite $pendy.

I can't figure out if/which HellRoaring or Powerstream units are one-way.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Correct, the Echo Charge keeps the banks isolated. But there is nothing wrong with an ACR (VSR)'s operation either. The banks do not combine until the charging bank - typically the house bank as it is larger - comes up to the specified voltage. This is usually about 13 volts.

The advantages of an ACR are higher current to the auxiliary battery (65 amps with Blue Seas smallest and 120 amps with the next largest for example) and 2 way operation with dual sensing. The Blue Seas ACR's are basically waterproof as they are potted in epoxy. The Echo is not in any way waterproof.
 
#26 ·
Sorry, I'm not sure how to state more clearly, the one feature, aspect, issue, I'm examining ATM is that the Echo Charger, like the DC-DC chargers, is **one-way-only**. Which seems different from nearly all other "voltage-following" isolator/combiner split-charge type devices, maybe almost unique in its price range? The ONLY other one I've found so far are the $$ Power-Gate battery isolators from PerfectSwitch.

I'm not interested (here and now anyway) in solutions that just open a normal circuit between two banks, allowing current to flow from whichever bank has the higher voltage.

What I want is, if I set it up to charge FROM BANK1 TO BANK2, there are NO circumstances where current will flow through the device "backward" from bank2 to bank1, even if there's a 200A HO alt pumping current into bank2.

1. Please (anyone) confirm, is this above aspect true for the Xantrex (ex-Heart) Echo Charger?

2. Does anyone know of any other voltage-following devices - IOW, not DCDC converters - that do the same?


I have confirmed in the meantime, that the Hellroaring units do not.
 
#27 · (Edited)
What I want is, if I set it up to charge FROM BANK1 TO BANK2, there are NO circumstances where current will flow through the device "backward" from bank2 to bank1, even if there's a 200A HO alt pumping current into bank2.

1. Please (anyone) confirm, is this above aspect true for the Xantrex (ex-Heart) Echo Charger?
I confirmed this aspect of the Echo Charge in the post above.

I just pointed out that an ACR if installed properly - with charge sources going to the larger bank as an Echo has to be installed - doesn't have the issues you are concerned about. There are hundreds of ACR's installed for each Echo Charge sold and they do not have any issues as you describe.

I sell the Echo Charge as well as ACR's and install both. I know both quite well.

Another device like the Echo Charge is the Balmar Duo-Charge.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Ah yes the Duo is in many ways like a DCDC Charger, custom top-limit on output voltage very useful for unlike banks and double the Amps capacity vs the EC, thanks for pointing that out.

And I wasn't raising any issues with all the other simpler ACRs etc , just keeping the focus on the one-way flow control, which it seems (so far) none do.


So, the current list:

Balmar Digital Duo, 30A limit, shuts down if target attempts to pull more (!)

Xantrex (ex-Heart) Echo Charger, 15A (corrected)

DC-DC converter-chargers (Sterling? 120A but $$)

Power-Gate battery isolators from PerfectSwitch, sky's the limit but $$$

Old-school ("blocking"?) diodes, but only if efficient ones can be found, so far too much heat waste and voltage drop.
 
#36 ·
My original question here wrt one-way flow control, is from my speculating that even a 90% SoC Lead bank would pull a decent charging current from an LFP bank resting at 13.6-7, no DC voltage converter needed. Maybe enough to get all the way to 100%, depending on their relative size.
I don't understand what you wish to do, and why one-way control is necessary for any of the things you list - but for this one, what you speculate is exactly how we charge our LA start batteries with our LFP house bank. When the engines are on, relays automatically combine the LA start batteries to the LFP house bank. I can also manually combine them when other charge sources are present (or whenever I want).

The answer to your speculation is that a 90% SOC LA start battery pulls very little current at all when connected to a 13.6-13.7V source. Heck, even when we were all LA, a 90% full start battery drew little current at 14.8V. 2-3A at most, tapering down as the SOC goes up.

I suppose that the current at this SOC would be proportional to bank size, so a large bank would draw more.

BTW, max charge voltage of 13.6-13.8V is not ideal for a LA battery, and will probably result in a decreased lifespan. For our $80 start batteries, we are willing to exchange a lower lifespan for simplicity and cost saving (we can replace them several times for the cost of a DC-DC converter or dedicated alternator). For a more expensive bank, a better solution would be more economical and practical.

Mark
 
#38 ·
Still confused. If you have a LFP bank, why are you still considering big $$$ LA banks? I just assumed you were considering small start LA batteries with a LFP house bank like we have.

If your charging sources are set to LFP profiles, they will not "ramp up" when a LA battery is brought in-line. Cutting off an out-of-range charging source is the provence of a bog-standard simple BMS circuit connected to a relay. I don't understand what/why you want to make that more complicated, or perhaps you haven't researched how LFP banks are typically installed.

We allow our LA batteries to accept charge current at the voltage setpoints of the LFP bank (13.8V). We have no dedicated charging for the LA batteries - they are combined with the LFP bank when the alternators are running.

Now the part that I really don't understand: if you have a genset, why would you need to run the engine for charging at all? And why do you consider running the engine a "fossil-fuel" event, but not the genset? If you are needing to run charging sources multiple times per day, then your problem is battery bank size or battery loads.

Mark
 
#40 ·
I searched all over the place for a repair/maintenance manual but I couldn't find anything. My inverter is in a fairly tight spot and removing the cover wasn't obvious. It looked like I might have to disconnect the DC cables and possibly even have to remove the unit from where it is mounted.

I spoke with a guy who works on these and he explained that once the screws on top and the side are removed, the cover just slides back a couple of inches to clear the DC terminals on the side and then it can be lifted straight up and off the unit.

I found a 25A spade type fuse clearly visible from the top of the unit on in the Echo 1 position on an internal board. It tested bad and replaced it. Curiously there was place for a second fuse for the Echo 2 charger. Hmm, I wonder if that enables the Echo 2 charger on my Freedom 20 that is only supposed to have one Echo charger. :)

I wanted to contribute back to this group so I made a video so that others will have a clear idea of what it takes to remove the cover and replace the fuses.
 
#41 ·
This thread was a good read. Thanks to all.

I have a related question, not perfectly on point, but close. I just removed my Xantrex Freedom 20 and replaced it with a 2800w Magnum inverter charger. During the swap, I removed all the echo charge cables, as the new I/C didn't have the echo capabilities. Ironically, my XF20 had two echo cables, one to the main start battery and one to the generator start battery. One of which was disconnected, since I believe the XF20 only has one echo, even though there are two ports. Weird.

My question is what to do now about the two start batteries. For the main start, I have an installed 110v OEM battery charger, whose breaker is always off, but is wired to both the house and main start. The breaker is off, so as not to compete with the inverter/charger. I'm thinking of disabling the house bank portion of the circuit and turning it on to charge the main.

That leaves the genset, which will only charge from the generator alternator. This was always the disconnected echo cable referred to above anyway. I'm thinking I should just get a small 110v charger for it, rather than another DC-DC charger. What are the pros/cons of this? What unit would you install?
 
#42 ·
This thread was a good read. Thanks to all.

I have a related question, not perfectly on point, but close. I just removed my Xantrex Freedom 20 and replaced it with a 2800w Magnum inverter charger. During the swap, I removed all the echo charge cables, as the new I/C didn't have the echo capabilities. Ironically, my XF20 had two echo cables, one to the main start battery and one to the generator start battery. One of which was disconnected, since I believe the XF20 only has one echo, even though there are two ports. Weird.

My question is what to do now about the two start batteries. For the main start, I have an installed 110v OEM battery charger, whose breaker is always off, but is wired to both the house and main start. The breaker is off, so as not to compete with the inverter/charger. I'm thinking of disabling the house bank portion of the circuit and turning it on to charge the main.

That leaves the genset, which will only charge from the generator alternator. This was always the disconnected echo cable referred to above anyway. I'm thinking I should just get a small 110v charger for it, rather than another DC-DC charger. What are the pros/cons of this? What unit would you install?
I would install either ACR's or Echo Chargers between the house bank and the other batteries. Alternatively you could install a Victron Argofet isolator (1 in/3 out). All of these options would automatically take care of charging the start battery and gen battery regardless of where the current is coming into the house bank from - Magnum inverter/charger, alternator, solar, etc.
 
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