Combining battery banks with a solenoid - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Electrical Systems
 Not a Member? 
  #1  
Old 04-25-2011
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,152
Thanks: 0
Thanked 71 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 8
mitiempo will become famous soon enough mitiempo will become famous soon enough
Combining battery banks with a solenoid

I am currently working on a boat with a solenoid for combining battery banks. When the ignition is on the normally open solenoid closes combining the banks for alternator charging. When the ignition is turned off the solenoid opens isolating the banks. At first I thought it wasn't a great idea but the more I think about it the more sense it makes. I am not recommending it to anyone but it does seem like a poor man's ACR in a way.
The shorepower charger goes to each bank for AC charging.

Can anyone see anything wrong with this arrangement? I searched the net and all I could find referred to vehicles, both off-road and RV's. No mention of marine use but I can't see any real difference.
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 04-25-2011
Maine Sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,410
Thanks: 11
Thanked 125 Times in 93 Posts
Rep Power: 15
Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice
Brian you lose a LOT of good protective features doing it that way. ACR's like the Blue Sea or Yandina make and break only when charging voltage is present or not present hence the generic term "voltage sensitive relays" pr VSR's. Key on relays can be combined without the alternator charging which can lead to depletion of a good bank into a drained bank or different sized banks being combined under other than charging circumstances..

With an ACR it would break on a voltage drop if the good battery had the voltage sucked below 13v and with a simple key on relay the good battery could have the CA sucked out of it as the relay would not open in low voltage only when the key is turned..
__________________
______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 04-26-2011
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,152
Thanks: 0
Thanked 71 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 8
mitiempo will become famous soon enough mitiempo will become famous soon enough
Thanks Maine

I thought of that - it's combined whenever the ignition is on regardless of battery condition or if charging voltage is present or not. Also means both batteries are really used for starting whether you want them to be or not.

I still lean to the Echo for most situations. I like the simplicity and reliability I have seen so far.
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 04-27-2011
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 1,811
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 10
btrayfors will become famous soon enough btrayfors will become famous soon enough
Brian,

Aside from the problems Maine mentioned -- which I agree with -- another problem I see is you'd be combining different types and sizes of batteries. Presumably, the start battery is much smaller than the combined house batteries, and it's near full charge always. Also, you could be combining different battery chemistries is you had, e.g., flooded house batteries and an AGM or gelled starting battery.

I agree with you re: the EchoCharge. It's a dandy device and is appropriate for most situations...much better IMHO than battery combiners, ACRs, and the like.

Let's pray that Xantrex doesn't fool with it's design or manufacture :-)

Bill
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 04-27-2011
Stu Jackson's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 799
Thanks: 0
Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts
Rep Power: 14
Stu Jackson is on a distinguished road
Bill,

I, too, agree.

As far as the echo charge is concerned, buy a few now, you'll be good until you sell the boat!

As we've been saying for quite some time now, though, if your ec or combiner craps out, there's always the B switch position! (when your engine is on). Isn't so automatic, but works!
__________________
Stu Jackson, C34, 1986, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 04-27-2011
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,152
Thanks: 0
Thanked 71 Times in 62 Posts
Rep Power: 8
mitiempo will become famous soon enough mitiempo will become famous soon enough
Bill

I agree with Maine as well.

Different chemistry issues exist with an ACR as well. The problem with the solenoid is the banks are in parallel as soon as the ignition switch is on, with the ACR only when the voltage rises from alternator output. If the start is charged and the house is at 50% the start will try to charge the house bank. Bad with AGM's certainly. It is hardly something I would recommend. But in a down and dirty way it does work, in this case with a flooded start battery and a small house bank.

I also hope Xantrex leaves the Echo Charge as is and keeps producing it.
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 04-27-2011
Maine Sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,410
Thanks: 11
Thanked 125 Times in 93 Posts
Rep Power: 15
Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice Maine Sail is just really nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by mitiempo View Post
I also hope Xantrex leaves the Echo Charge as is and keeps producing it.

I have been bugging Blue Seas to build one for a while with no luck. Perhaps you guys could start requesting one too and they might listen. I am so fed up with Xantrex it is not even funny. Installed an inverter today and it was missing pieces. Took an hour on the phone for them to find how to send me four screws. When that stuff happens with Blue Sea it is a 30 second phone call and the part is in the mail.
__________________
______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




© Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Battery banks must be the same or can be different? edwmama Electrical Systems 6 11-16-2010 02:39 AM
Battery Banks islands50 Gear & Maintenance 2 04-19-2010 08:52 AM
Battery Boxes and Banks arf145 Electrical Systems 21 03-12-2010 11:03 AM
Battery Chargers for Multiple Battery Banks btrayfors Electrical Systems 5 11-15-2009 11:57 AM
Battery Banks 1 or 2 SimonV Gear & Maintenance 9 10-25-2007 09:25 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:41 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.