Wiring diagram house/starter bank needed - SailNet Community
 1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 14 Old 09-21-2012 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Wiring diagram house/starter bank needed

Hello Everyone,

Would anyone have a wiring diagram for the following setup?

- 1 starter battery 12V
- 1 battery 12V for the windlass
- 6 deep cycle battery 6V to form a single 12V house bank (this has already been wired)
- Xantrex inverter/charger TR1512 (powered from shorepower or a Honda 2000i generator, this connection to the housebank is also done and seems to work fine)
- 38HP diesel engine, alternator running through a Heart Interface Incharge 3 stage alternator regulator
- an electric switch to disconnect the alternator

I assume what is recommended is a 1-2-both switch to isolate the house bank from the starter battery so the engine could be started with either the starter battery, house bank, or both.


Thanks,
Dan

Last edited by Dan1234; 09-21-2012 at 12:40 PM.
Dan1234 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 Old 09-22-2012 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Wiring diagram house/starter bank; critique needed

Is this gonna work?
Attached Thumbnails
wiring diagram.jpg  
Dan1234 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 14 Old 09-22-2012
Senior Member
 
Maine Sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,890
Thanks: 20
Thanked 223 Times in 170 Posts
Rep Power: 16
       
Re: Wiring diagram house/starter bank needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan1234 View Post
Hello Everyone,

Would anyone have a wiring diagram for the following setup?

- 1 starter battery 12V
- 1 battery 12V for the windlass
- 6 deep cycle battery 6V to form a single 12V house bank (this has already been wired)
- Xantrex inverter/charger TR1512 (powered from shorepower or a Honda 2000i generator, this connection to the housebank is also done and seems to work fine)
- 38HP diesel engine, alternator running through a Heart Interface Incharge 3 stage alternator regulator
- an electric switch to disconnect the alternator

I assume what is recommended is a 1-2-both switch to isolate the house bank from the starter battery so the engine could be started with either the starter battery, house bank, or both.


Thanks,
Dan
I would simply lose the windlass battery and run the windlass and other loads off the house bank. If you do that there are many possible ways to wire it. It can be done, with three banks, but I'd like to hear your reasoning behind why you want to have to manage and wire up three banks..

______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Maine Sail is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 14 Old 09-23-2012
Senior Member
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 907
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts
Rep Power: 15
 
Re: Wiring diagram house/starter bank needed

I agree, no need for three banks, why complicate matters.

Basic Battery Wiring Diagrams This is a very good basic primer for boat system wiring: Basic Battery Wiring Diagrams

This is another very good basic primer for boat system wiring: The 1-2-B Switch by Maine Sail (brings together a lot of what this subject is all about)
1/BOTH/2/OFF Switches Thoughts & Musings - SailboatOwners.com

Stu Jackson, C34, 1986, M25 engine, Rocna 10 (22#)
Stu Jackson is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 14 Old 09-23-2012
Senior Member
 
ebs001's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Posts: 2,205
Thanks: 6
Thanked 21 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Re: Wiring diagram house/starter bank needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
I would simply lose the windlass battery and run the windlass and other loads off the house bank. If you do that there are many possible ways to wire it. It can be done, with three banks, but I'd like to hear your reasoning behind why you want to have to manage and wire up three banks..
I am of the opinion that a windlass should be connected to the start battery rather than the house bank. The start battery should be one rated in CCA and is designed to provide a large current draw of short duration (engine starting and windlass loads) as opposed to deep cycle batteries which are designed for low current draws of long duration (lighting and electronics). Other than that I agree with you that only 2 banks are required.

Last edited by ebs001; 09-23-2012 at 10:06 PM.
ebs001 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 14 Old 09-23-2012
Senior Member
 
Maine Sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,890
Thanks: 20
Thanked 223 Times in 170 Posts
Rep Power: 16
       
Re: Wiring diagram house/starter bank needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebs001 View Post
I am of the opinion that a windlass should be connected to the start battery rather than the house bank. The start battery should be one rated in CCA and is designed to provide a large current draw of short duration (engine starting and windlass loads) as opposed to deep cycle batteries which are designed for low current draws of long duration (lighting and electronics). Other than that I agree with you that only 2 banks are required.

Windlasses are anything but "short duration" compared to starting an engine. Starting batteries are rated for 30 seconds duration. If the motor is running every time you run the windlass then it can be okay but a sufficiently sized house bank, for a boat that has a windlass, will nearly always maintain a higher voltage during anchor raising than a single start battery. Higher voltages at the windallass motor mean a happier windlass. CCA and MCA ratings are for 30 seconds and allow the battery to drop to 7.2 volts.

As an example I just re-wired a bow thruster the owner was having loads of issues with. The thruster was wired to the starting battery. I simply moved it to his bank of four 6V batteries and he now maintains over 11.7V when using the thruster vs. just 8 volts off the start battery. It now actually moves the bow of his boat...

The idea that deep cycle batteries cant power a windlass and support a decent voltage is not the case with a sufficient house bank. They usually do far better than a starting battery unless the start battery is massive.

I worked on a boat last Wednesday that had four group 31 batteries and as measured was delivering over 3200 CCA on that bank. At 70f that is well over 4000 CA. That banks powers that windlass and the electric winches like there is no tomorrow. The start battery in contrast was delivering just 530CCA or about 700 CA at 70F...

______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Maine Sail is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 14 Old 09-27-2012
Senior Member
 
asdf38's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 780
Thanks: 1
Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Re: Wiring diagram house/starter bank needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
I would simply lose the windlass battery and run the windlass and other loads off the house bank. If you do that there are many possible ways to wire it. It can be done, with three banks, but I'd like to hear your reasoning behind why you want to have to manage and wire up three banks..
I can understand the advantages of eliminating a windlass battery. But I can also see the motivation to avoid running huge wires across the entire boat (12V is pretty bad for power delivery over distance).

What about a windlass battery charged via a current limiting echo charger? It keeps the forward battery charged but the limited unidirectional current means you can get away with smaller wires (properly fused at the forward windlass battery). The disadvantage is that the windlass would only have access to the power in the forward battery, if it died, so would the windlass.

Last edited by asdf38; 09-27-2012 at 05:55 PM.
asdf38 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 14 Old 09-27-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 1,854
Thanks: 0
Thanked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: Wiring diagram house/starter bank needed

For an EchoCharge to maintain a separate windlass battery properly, you'd still have to use pretty large size wires to avoid excessive voltage drop over long runs. It's do-able, though.

I chose a different route: I have two T-105 Trojans under my V-berth forward which power the windlass. These are charged by an Iota DLS-55/IQ4 battery charger also located in the forward cabin. The charger is powered either from shore current or from my onboard 3.5KW AC generator. In an emergency, it could also be powered from my Victron Multi-Plus 2500 watt inverter, drawing current from the house batteries (six T-105s).

Even without charging, I think the T-105 pair have enough oomph to operate the windlass (Lewmar Concept 2) for at least 5-6 anchoring cycles -- both down and up.

This system has worked quite well for many years now. I chose this solution because I like very often to come to anchor under sail, and to sail off the anchor without the engine running. As MaineSail says, the house batteries do a very good job of powering the windlass without the need to start the engine.

Bill

Last edited by btrayfors; 09-27-2012 at 05:53 PM.
btrayfors is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 14 Old 09-27-2012
Senior Member
 
asdf38's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 780
Thanks: 1
Thanked 12 Times in 11 Posts
Rep Power: 6
 
Re: Wiring diagram house/starter bank needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebs001 View Post
I am of the opinion that a windlass should be connected to the start battery rather than the house bank. The start battery should be one rated in CCA and is designed to provide a large current draw of short duration (engine starting and windlass loads) as opposed to deep cycle batteries which are designed for low current draws of long duration (lighting and electronics). Other than that I agree with you that only 2 banks are required.
Deep cycles can supply cranking amps as well and the difference isn't that big. For comparison Deka (Sams club duracell, some West Marine batteries) spec their G27 starter/dual/deep-cycle battery's at 840/650/575 CCA respectively. So the deep cycle puts out only 32% less cranking amps than the dedicated starter (and interestingly only about 10% less than the dual purpose).

So while the deep cycle can start all day long with no damage, the starter will die quickly if deep cycled. I think some people cling to a firm division between start and deep cycles that isn't justified by the numbers. This is why I have a deep cycle reserve/start battery in my boat.

http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/0194.pdf

Last edited by asdf38; 09-27-2012 at 05:56 PM.
asdf38 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 14 Old 09-27-2012
Senior Member
 
mitiempo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,512
Thanks: 0
Thanked 96 Times in 87 Posts
Rep Power: 8
   
Re: Wiring diagram house/starter bank needed

While the house bank is normally composed of deep cycle batteries - golf carts for instance - because of the bank size it most often would have more cranking ability than a single starter battery.

Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
mitiempo is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need wiring diagram Cyane Sailboat Design and Construction 3 08-05-2012 01:53 PM
Wiring diagram needed old-sailer C & C 1 05-28-2012 07:42 AM
Sanity check needed on short-term house bank configuration rhumbunctious Gear & Maintenance 13 12-02-2010 07:14 PM
Wiring Diagram Needed-1 Engine, 2 Switches, 3 Batteries Compujedi Electrical Systems 19 09-24-2010 10:48 PM
Yanmar wiring diagram mikethecapt Gear & Maintenance 7 11-22-2007 07:58 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome