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-   -   HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/electrical-systems/92709-ho-alternator-serpentine-pulley-kit-install.html)

Maine Sail 10-03-2012 01:53 PM

HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install
 
The Stock System
The owner of this boat keeps it on a mooring and as such his stock charging system was proving to be inadequate for his family's use. Having recently upgraded his battery bank to TPPL / AGM batteries he was in need of an alternator makeover...

This install is focusing on the serpentine pulley kit and alternator install only. The wiring, regulator and regulator set up is a whole other bag of worms that would be double this info...
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143088965.jpg


The Battery Bank:
His bank of batteries is a large bank of four group 31 TPPL (thin plate pure lead) AGM batteries made by Odyssey. The bank is 400Ah in total but can also accept about 320A of charge current on the low end of acceptance, in bulk mode and over 1200A on the high end..

Contrary to popular beliefs and misconceptions about batteries and alternators it is the battery that "takes" or "accepts" current from the alternator. The alternator does not "force" current to the bank. The alternator only follows what the batteries want, up to it's limits. In this case the batteries, in bulk mode, below 80% state of charge is considered BULK, will take far more than ANY alternator that could be fit to this engine can or could deliver.

To be more specific an Odyssey PC 2150M 100Ah battery can accept anywhere from 0.8C or 80A of charge current, to 3.1C or 310A of charge current when charging in bulk mode. That is a HUGE amount of "accepted" charging current. Contrast that to most deep cycle wet cell batteries that take just 0.25C or 25A per 100Ah of capacity. Think about it like this, a 400Ah bank of deep cycle wet batteries will take about 100A of charging current and this bank of Odyssey batteries will take as much as 1240 amps of charge current. Big differences in the loads the alternator can and will see.

With a bank of four PC 2150M batteries, which this boat has, they can literally accept 1240A of charging current. Unfortunately there is no charging system available for a sailboat that can supply that kind of charging current. If there was, you could literally charge from 20% of capacity to 80%, or replace 60% of your banks capacity in TEN MINUTES. Wow....

Like any AGM battery these TPPL batteries can take massive amounts of charging current tapping out just about any stock alternator, and exceeding in acceptance, the output of just about any alternator that would fit onto this engine. This is why I feel it is important to use a serpentine kit and do a proper installation that can handle these batteries.

Over the years I have seen many stock alternators burned up by the high acceptance rates of AGM batteries, and Odyssey's are no different. They really need to be fed with a charging system than is designed for it and can handle them.

With the owners stock crank and water pump pulleys sized for a 3/8" v-belt he was really limited to about 80A of charge current at a maximum, in an alternator output, before the belt would begin to wear quickly.

We discussed the options and decided on an Electromaax 140A alternator and the Electromaax serpentine pulley kit was a good fit. We could have gone bigger but it would have meant a bigger HP bite out of his relatively small propulsion engine. 140A is a good fit..
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/i...7864/large.jpg


The Problem:
When I began to examine the layout of the pulleys and engine I was concerned an E-Maax kit would not work or fit. The timing marks and stock crank pulley are very, very close to one another. The design of the Electromaax pulley kits are ingenious in that they simply fit over the main crank for an easy install. This is good and bad for some motors as they make the crank pulley slightly larger.

I shot some photos, took some measurements and I picked up the phone and Called John one of the owners of Electromaax.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143088973.jpg


Measuring The Crank Pulley:
After emailing John the photos he assured me they had made a kit for a Volvo MD2030 before, "no worries mate".

When it came time to order the kit "No worries mate" became "worries mate". The engine E-Maax had done a kit for was similar but larger in horse power. Both Volvo engines had different crank pulleys and that kit would not fit this motor. A miscommunication internally at E-Maax gave me wrong information. Of course I have already quoted the customer so ....... Argh......Delays....
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143088966.jpg


Remove Factory Pulley If Needed:
I had a long discussion with Rob and John at Electromaax and they were convinced they could pull this kit off. I removed both the water pump and crank pulleys and shipped them off to Electromaax using their Buffalo, NY shipping address to save money. Electromaax is a Canadian company but they have a US address which makes it convenient.

To remove a crank pulley you'll likely need an impact driver. I find this electric one works wonders and I don't need to tote around an air compressor.

To get the pulley off the crank you'll need a gear puller. I used my two jaw puller and it popped right off.

If Electromaax has a kit already made for your engine you will NOT need to do this step. I helped Electromaax develop this kit for the Volvo MD-2030..
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143089236.jpg


A Pre-Made, Factory Ready Kit:
As I mentioned Electromaax has lots of kits already pre-made for lots of marine engines including Yanmar, Universal, Westerbeke, Nani, Beta, Volvo, Perkins and more..

This happens to be a Westerbeke kit with a 140A alternator. Notice that all three pulleys are anodized black. The kits come complete with the pulley's alternator, bolts, two belts, regulator, Loctite and Tef-Gel.

The silver colored pulley is not an Electromaax product it is an added pulley for the Sea Frost engine driven refrigeration system on this boat.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/145417417.jpg


Serpentine Pulley & Factory Pulley:

If you are helping E-Maax create a kit for your engine BE PATIENT. It took me five weeks to get these. If developing a kit wait until your off seasons. There can be multiple trips back and forth to the manufacturer before everything fits just perfectly.

This is the factory Volvo crank pulley and the new serpentine crank pulley.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143088967.jpg


Back Side:
This is the back side and you can see how easily the serpentine pulley will slide right over the crank pulley.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143088969.jpg


The New Pulley Just Slides Over:
It just slides in like this. Take a look at the difference in surface area for the belts.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143088968.jpg


They Fit Like A Glove:
Here the crank pulley is in the new serpentine pulley. When you buy a pre-made stocked kit the pulleys will be anodized black. E-Maax will anodize your "developed" pulleys after the fit is "known" to be good.. We are waiting until the next off season to send the pulleys for anodizing.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143088970.jpg


Side Profile:
Beautiful Fit!
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143088971.jpg


Re-install Crank Pulley (if necessary):

To Install the kit you'll first need to re-install the crank pulley (only if you have developed the kit with them). To do this the a torque wrench is required. Torque the crank pulley to the manufacturers suggested torque which can usually be found in the engine service manual or often the owners manual.. You may need to lock the engine in reverse or use a crank bar to hold it.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143088972.jpg


Install The New Crank Pulley:

Slide the new serpentine pulley over the factory crank pulley and align the holes.

Apply some blue LocTite to the threads and tighten. You can look up torque values for any size fastener on the internet in metric or SAE. Keep in mind that torque values are lower for "lubed threads" and LocTite, when wet, counts as a lube.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143089350.jpg


The "Problem" Solved:
This was the big challenge with this kit. The serpentine pulley needed to clear the timing marks and then all the pulleys, water pump and alternator, needed to line up with the crank pulley.

E-Maax exceeded my expectations in this department and the fit was amazing.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143089244.jpg


Water Pump Pulley:
Rather than fit a waterpump pulley over the old one, like they do with the crank pulley, they simply machine a new one. Fitting a water pump pulley over the old one could change the engines flow characteristics and they are careful to keep the pump within the manufacturers guidelines.

In the kit you order the offsets for all the pulleys will line up perfectly.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143089238.jpg


Water Pump Pulley OD Is The Same:
As you can see the OD of the pulley remains the same.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143089349.jpg


Water Pump:
If you are developing a kit and need to send the pulley's off to E-Maax simply put the bolts back into the pump so you don't misplace them. We all know how bilges prefer a diet of expensive nuts and bolts. Best just to know where they are...
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143089347.jpg


Install The Water Pump Pulley:
Just like with the crank pulley install the water pump pulley by sliding it over the water pump shaft. Then insert the bolts and torque to spec. I used a strap wrench to hold the pulley while torquing the bolts. A two handed job and no third hand for the camera..
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143089379.jpg


The Alternator:
This is the 140A Electromaax alternator. It is well built and hand wound. The front case is cast by Electromaax in Canada and has a universal adjusting ear for fitting it to many different engines. The bearings are over sized, it has dual internal fans, a built in regulator and the capability to be wired for external regulation as well, it also has heavy gauge hand wound windings that are 14GA. Beefy to say the least. The cases of these alternators are not painted to help them dissipate heat better.

I threw this one on the test bench at my local alternator shop before installing it and cold it exceeded 150A before the test machines belt could not handle it.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143089425.jpg


Install The Alternator:
This kit required a shim behind the alternator pulley. The front of the pulley was machined to make up for this so there is enough shaft to get the nut on. To remove the alternator pulley and impact driver works best. If you don't have one the shaft is machined to take a hex key / Allen wrench.

If you look close you can see the shim already half way down the shaft.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143089351.jpg


Crank, Pump & Alternator Installed:
With the pulleys and alternator installed it is time to install the belt.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143088975.jpg


The Belt:

The belt used in the Electromaax kits is a J or "Jason" belt in a 10 groove design. The numbering designation for these belts is inches X 10. So a 33" belt would be a J330 or 33" X 10. The J360 shown in the picture is a 36" belt.

These belts are NOT normal belts you will find at an automotive store and need to be special ordered. They are easy to find and Electromaax or another source such as Motion Industries can get them for you.

It should be noted that Electromaax sends you TWO belts in the kit. However if developing the kit the size they send you may not be correct. Best to collapse the alternator to it's shortest belt size than wrap a tape measure around it to know what you'll need. Once the pulleys were installed I did this and discovered I had 32.5" path around the pulleys. I ordered a 33" belt as opposed to the 36" belt they had sent me and all was good.

If going off cruising I might invest in a third or fourth belt as these Jason belts are NOT going to be easy to find in remote locations. No one in the entire state of Maine had one in the size I needed. It was four days to get one from Electromaax and they had sent it out the very next morning..

I know why they use this belt, and that is because it can handle a lot of HP. It would however be nice to have the option, on alts under say 140A, to have an standard automotive belt option you could grab at any auto-parts store..
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143089424.jpg


Automotive Serpentine Vs. Electromaax:
Excuse the flash blast. I wanted to show the difference between a standard automotive serpentine pulley and the 10 groove "J" belt. You can see why a standard serpentine belt won't work.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143089427.jpg


Installed:
If you are installing a serpentine kit and alternator, and Electromaax has a pre-made kit for you engine, you are looking at about 1 hour from start to finish on the install. This of course does not include the wiring just installing the pulley kit and alternator.

These kits are very, very easy to install and can drive lots of current to your bank without so much as a whimper.

Because the belts have so much more grip they don't have to be as tight as a single V belt.. This can help put less wear & tear on your water pump bearing and alternator bearings.

Other belt options for alternator upgrades would include dual v-belts but I generally dislike them. One belt invariably seems to take the load more than the other. No two belts are exactly the same length or stretch or wear the same in the pulley grooves. In a perfect world they would wear evenly and stretch evenly, unfortunately we just don't live in a perfect world.

With v-belts going out of fashion in the automotive market it is getting very difficult to find "matched pairs" of v-belts. Industrial suppliers sometimes have them or can order them but I am still not a huge fan. Serpentine pulleys just makes sense for high amperage alternators.

The decision to go serpentine was an easy one...
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143089246.jpg


Figure Your Pulley Ratio:
Figuring your pulley ratio is easy. Fist measure the alternator pulley overall diameter.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143089242.jpg


Measure The Crank:
Next, measure the overall diameter of the crank pulley.

The alternator has an OD of about 2.43" and the crank has an OD of about 4.43" so we simply divide 4.43" by 2.43" and we have a 1.8:1 pulley ratio.

This means that for every revolution of the engine crank the alternator makes 1.8 revolutions.

By knowing this we can determine that at 1000 engine RPM our alternator is spinning at 1800 RPM. Once you know this you can compare it to the curve for your alternator to see where you need to run your engine at to develop the current you want.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143089241.jpg


Compare It To The Output Curve:
This is the Electromaax performance curve for the 140A alternator. Electromaax uses a pulley ratio of 2.25:1 for this power curve. By knowing your ratio you can backwards engineer the performance off this chart.

Personally I would like to see Electromaax use alternator shaft RPM on their curves but they don't. Just know that their curves are based on a 2.25:1 pulley ratio.

Based on this performance curve we would need an engine RPM of 1675 to attain a 3000 alternator shaft RPM which puts us at near max performance for the alternator. So on this particular Volvo engine pushing much beyond 1675 RPM really gains you little in the way of added alternator performance.

If you run your engine at anchor for charging, or engine driven refrigeration, this is good information to know so you don't run the engine faster than is necessary and annoy everyone with unnecessary noise pollution. Sea Frost engine driven refrigeration systems attain max output by about 1500 RPM so this is a pretty close match up.

Even at an idle of just 1000 RPM this alternator can and does produce over 100A of current!
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/143089245.jpg


Finished Install:
One last item. Do not forget that the neg wire for the alternator is equally important in this circuit as the positive wire. They should be the same size. These are 1/0 UL1426 battery cable.

I find the best location for a heavy neg wire on these alternators is to the adjusting arm ear. What can't be seen here is the alternators temperature sensor, which is also very important, especially if feeding large banks or banks of AGM batteries.
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/image/146182740.jpg

chucklesR 10-03-2012 03:14 PM

Re: HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install
 
As usual, excellent write up MS. I've got a couple questions, don' t laugh if they seem naive please.

The new alt can put out 140 amps a hour, the bank is 500ah. Assuming you were involved in sizing the bank the owner is educated enough to have sized it so he doesn't cycle it below 50% (250ah).
In the first hour the alt dumps in 140ah, bank is at 390ah / 78% - we'll call that 80% because it's close enough.
At that point - 1 hour and a couple seconds - it's no longer in bulk charge mode (I'm ignoring the efficiency ratings and drops amps) and has gone to absorption mode.

Isn't the 140 amp output kind of overkill? It saves some diesel running time certainly, but is it worth the presumed 2k of cost?
If he's got 100ah of solar capability this makes sense - run the motor a hour in the morning while it's still in bulk acceptance, then absorption rate with the solar to get almost full by sun down.
I ask because I'm going to have similar needs on my boat (500 ah bank, 200ah 'daily diet).

Also - what's the take off the engine/shaft horse power, I'm assuming there is no free lunch.

CarbonSink62 10-03-2012 03:22 PM

Re: HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install
 
Great article!

One question: If the crank pulley becomes a little oversized and the water pump pulley stays the same, the water pump shaft spins a little faster; would that be a problem? or is the difference too small to worry about?

Maine Sail 10-03-2012 04:17 PM

Re: HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chucklesR (Post 929309)
As usual, excellent write up MS. I've got a couple questions, don' t laugh if they seem naive please.

The new alt can put out 140 amps a hour, the bank is 500ah. Assuming you were involved in sizing the bank the owner is educated enough to have sized it so he doesn't cycle it below 50% (250ah).
In the first hour the alt dumps in 140ah, bank is at 390ah / 78% - we'll call that 80% because it's close enough.
At that point - 1 hour and a couple seconds - it's no longer in bulk charge mode (I'm ignoring the efficiency ratings and drops amps) and has gone to absorption mode.

This all depends upon how the owner wants to run the boat. Many owners want to be able to cycle between 50% & 80-85% with less than or equal to 1 hour of engine per day. It also depends upon what you have for batteries.

If that 500Ah bank were Lifeline batteries they want to see a MINIMUM charge capacity of 0.2 "C" or 100A hot output in bulk mode. This requires at least a 120A alternator to meet the "minimum" for Lifeline.

Odyssey TPPL AGM's are even tougher to satisfy the "minimum" requirements. Odyssey wants to see a min charge current of 0.4 of "C" so a 500Ah bank of Odyssey batteries technically needs a 225A alternator to meet the 200A min charge current. The boat above has a 400Ah bank and technically should have the 180A alt to hit the 160A / 40% of capacity recomendation but the owner decided 140 was close enough and preferred the low RPM performance of the 140A vs. the 180A. I did confer with Odyssey on this too and they said while 40% is preferred and advised that the 30% we were at was far better than most installations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucklesR (Post 929309)
Isn't the 140 amp output kind of overkill?

Again for Lifeline, Odyssey or other AGM batteries it can actually be quite underkill not overkill.


Quote:

Originally Posted by chucklesR (Post 929309)
It saves some diesel running time certainly, but is it worth the presumed 2k of cost?

It may not be worth it to you but may be to others. For this owner it cut him from about 3+ hours to hit 85% to about an hour. His stock alt really suffered when heated up and maxed at about 28-30A when hot. That is two+ hours, per day, of less wear and tear on the engine, alternator, noise pollution for others if in an anchorage AND more time under sail only vs. motoring or motor sailing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucklesR (Post 929309)
If he's got 100ah of solar capability this makes sense - run the motor a hour in the morning while it's still in bulk acceptance, then absorption rate with the solar to get almost full by sun down.

Even without solar it makes sense, if it makes sense to your wallet, you don't want to listen to an engine all day long and prefer to sail more than motor. Solar always makes sense as an additional charge spurce provided you can fit the panel real estate.. The only time it may not make sense is if your alternator is exceeding bank acceptance in bulk and the capabilities are going untapped. Even then a larger alt will run cooler and work less hard so alts that exceed acceptance of the bank can still be a good value over the long haul because they simply last longer.
.
Quote:

Originally Posted by chucklesR (Post 929309)
I ask because I'm going to have similar needs on my boat (500 ah bank, 200ah 'daily diet).

A 140A alternator on a flooded bank still makes a lot of sense as the 500Ah bank will take about 125A of charge current for a period of time in bulk. Putting it back as quick as possible means shorter run times. Also many HO alts will output LOTS of current at low RPM meaning less engine RPM at anchor if you need to top up on the hook.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chucklesR (Post 929309)
Also - what's the take off the engine/shaft horse power, I'm assuming there is no free lunch.

About 1HP per 25A +/-. It should not affect a properly sized engine, in most circumstances. If that is an issue a field cut off switch can be added so if you need more HP you simply cut the regulator. I have a number of boats with cut-offs and they owners claim the never use them or find a need to use it.

btrayfors 10-03-2012 05:57 PM

Re: HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install
 
At the SSCA Gam in the Rhode River south of Annapolis, the featured speaker Nigel Calder presented a wealth of data on power management which he, and others, have collected and analyzed.

Most shocking was the real costs of recharging your batteries from either main engine or from onboard generators. I won't get into specifics here, but suffice it to say that we all tend to WAY WAY WAY underestimate the real costs. If you factor in the cost of POL (fuel, oil, etc.), the amortization cost of running an internal combustion engine, the most efficient "window" for charging, engine/generator loading, etc., etc., you will find that the real costs are enormous for most of us in the way we use our boats.

One takeaway...the most important one: if you're using modern AGM or TPPL or gelled batteries, the best thing you can do to cut costs from engine-driven charging is to fit the largest alternator you can. Also, fit the largest solar panels you can. Wind generators are good -- especially in windy places -- but they require maintenance, while solar panels are like the energizer bunny that just keeps on giving...for at least 20 years.

Bottom line: MORE ONBOARD CHARGING CAPACITY = LOWER OVERALL OPERATING COSTS

If you have AGMs or TPPL batteries aboard, the likelihood is that you cannot possibly fit all the charging capacity which would be desirable. So, do the best you can: put the largest alternator/battery charger/solar panels aboard you can reasonably accommodate.

Bill

btrayfors 10-03-2012 06:07 PM

Re: HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install
 
Nigel also had something very interesting to say about new technologies coming soon.

He believes that PMDC motors/alternators being perfected in the automotive industry will soon yield products for boaters which will provide extremely high capacity alternators at reasonable prices, and will change the way we think about onboard power systems.

Imagine a world in which you could fit a 500A alternator to your engine or generator, and one in which your battery bank could easily accept all the power you could deliver to it.

According to Mr. Calder, this world is not far away!

Personally, I'm going to look into buying a copper mine, 'cuz this kind of amperage is gonna require HUGE wire :-)

Bill

chucklesR 10-03-2012 08:01 PM

Re: HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install
 
Thanks for the response MS.

I'm going to have to add a HO alt to my to do list, and my budget.
The bank will be flooded's - I've had my fill of AGM's already.

I think my 44hp should handle it.

Btrafors, I've read the write up from Calder's presentation, that's why I'm looking at 3x240w solar panels just for my 500ah bank. I'd go bigger but it just won't fit.
Keep in mind those 500a alt's will suck HP from the prop. Better have a switch to kill them.

chef2sail 10-04-2012 02:45 AM

Re: HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install
 
Great article and explanation.

We outfitted Haleakula with an
80 amp Electromax.largest which would fit in the engine space..no serpentine though. The bulk charge at idle or low rpm is over 60 amps vrs the old Hitachi -25, or a Bamar 600 series -40. We rarely allow our bank of 720 ah under 450 ( roughly 5days without engine) . At running speed 2700 rpm the eMaax puts out 83 amps at 77 degrees. We can get back to 80% (575) usually in 1.5 hours of motoring. Have noticed that the alternator also runs 30 degrees cooler than previous Hitachi. Love it's dual fans. I knows it's somewhat undersized so we are getting at least one large photo cell to help. We spend enough time at dock keeping them topped off too.

I got the electromax at MS recommendation and have been very happy with it.

Minnewaska 10-04-2012 06:23 AM

Re: HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by btrayfors (Post 929381)
Nigel also had something very interesting to say about new technologies coming soon.

He believes that PMDC motors/alternators being perfected in the automotive industry will soon yield products for boaters which will provide extremely high capacity alternators at reasonable prices......

This will be terrific and I'm sure there are many electronic advancements on the horizon. The racing industry is heavily involved in this research. If you can imagine a battery powered Indy or Nascar, sailors needs are easy.

I'm guessing that high output alternators require more than just a way to make them less expensive. They also need to be substantially more efficient in order for our relatively low horsepower engines to turn them.

I'm a bit suspicious of the economic for boaters, however. There are probably more hybrid cars on the road today than there are boating customers that would buy these upgrades and hybrid technology remains very expensive.

Minnewaska 10-04-2012 06:33 AM

Re: HO Alternator & Serpentine Pulley Kit Install
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CarbonSink62 (Post 929312)
Great article!

One question: If the crank pulley becomes a little oversized and the water pump pulley stays the same, the water pump shaft spins a little faster; would that be a problem? or is the difference too small to worry about?

Agreed, this is once again an outstanding documentary by MaineSail.

I had this same question when reading the article. Presumably, if the standard kits slips a pulley over the crank pulley, this is a common issue.

Its the part of the article that says fitting a new pulley over the water pulley would change the flow characteristics that might want a tweak. It seems the new crank pulley is already doing that, so you would think you would want a different dimensioned water pump pulley to compensate.


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