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Is this pro wiring?

6K views 43 replies 18 participants last post by  MarkSF 
#1 ·
Looking at a boat with a new Beta Marine diesel. Seller claims the motor was installed by a reputable dealer. This wiring on the control panel gives me doubts. Doesn't look dangerous, but doesn't look professional to me either.
Am I being too picky?
Posted this in the diesel thread without results. Thought some "Sparkies" might be lurking here!:)
 

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#8 · (Edited)
Cost of new Beta Marine diesel including installation, $10 to $20K.
Cost of rewiring the instrument panel to your own satisfaction, virtually nothing.
Does this put it into perspective for you?
Not really. I certainly know that diesel motors are expensive and what motivates people to cut corners. However I assumed that if a factory authorized shop installed the motor (as the seller claims), they would insist on doing the instrument panel (warranty and liability issues being what they are). One of the other posts indicates this might not be the case.

It's above a quarter berth, so the exposed wires could easily be disturbed. I know one thing. Even if I did it, it would be a lot tidier than this, and I'm no ace electrician! It's funny... On my boat space is often so tight I can't make wiring as tidy as I would like. Given the space on this boat, I could clean this mess up in about an hour, heat shrink and all! I'm actually envious, though I don't know I want the task!

So, with a new installation, where would the shop draw the line. "We mount the motor, but you can hook up the prop shaft and/or connect the instruments." ? I would think they would want it to be running and have functioning instruments when they signed off on it. Am I wrong?
 

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#3 ·
L,

Looks a bit messy but if all the crimps and terminals are proper it will probably work? Just because the work was done by a "professional" it may not always be right, even though it works, at least for a while. Could be they didn't want to take the extra time to use label's and route it in a neat manner. As mentioned earlier, if it doesn't please you you can walk or re-do it later on your own. If the mounts are solid, fittings tight, no oil or fuel leaks, and it runs well without excessive vibrations that is a place to start.

Paul T
 
#4 ·
Also if it was a repower the new panel was likely 'made do' with the existing wiring rather than taking the time to redo the works.

Ain't pretty, though... chances are it works OK.
 
#10 ·
That is a bit of an eyesore... it'll need covering up even after a tidy re-do.

I'd expect the engine install to include any and everything that gets you to the point of firing it up and leaving the dock.. so the whole enchilada, unless unusual arrangements were made at the time.
 
#12 ·
If it works... it works...

Not everybody is anal/retentive enough to make 90* bends with a "wireing schematic" layout just for "looks"...

If that's what you want then make it so but be prepared to pay....(or DIY)

If you paid for installation and it runs.. it was "professionally" installed..

You have to pay extra for anally installed...
 
#13 ·
If it works... it works...

Not everybody is anal/retentive enough to make 90* bends with a "wiring schematic" layout just for "looks"...

If that's what you want then make it so but be prepared to pay....(or DIY)

If you paid for installation and it runs.. it was "professionally" installed..

You have to pay extra for anally installed...
Points taken, good enough for government work. In addition to being a telephone installer/repairman many years ago, I have done a fair amount of automotive and marine wiring and always tried to do it right the first time, not wanting the boat going up on the rocks. I found it doesn't take much more time to make it neat (not necessarily perfect) , secured, labeled, good solid connections and sealed with shrink wrap. To each his own, your mileage may vary. :D

Paul T
 
#14 ·
I took a pass on Cal 29 that had a Beta installed as there was so much hacked stuff IT WOULD never pass a survey

The unit comes with a panel that plugs into the motor HOW hard can it be to do that part correctly ?
 
#15 ·
I took a pass on Cal 29 that had a Beta installed as there was so much hacked stuff IT WOULD never pass a survey

The unit comes with a panel that plugs into the motor HOW hard can it be to do that part correctly ?
From the looks of L's picture it appears the "pro" didn't want to replace the existing panel, he may have been in a hurry as many "pros" seem to be. Never enough time to do it right the first time but always enough time to come back and fix it. Perhaps with the advent of "plug in" stuff, quality hand wiring may be becoming a lost art, except for Mainsail, who I would hire in a heartbeat, his work is art work.

Paul T
 
#16 ·
"Professional" means that someone got paid to do the installation. It does not mean that they did it right. Usually "professionals" are paid by the job, so there is incentive to maximize revenue by taking as many jobs as time allows.

I am strictly an amature (I prefer "craftsman"). If I looked at the number of hours that it takes me to do anything on the boat (usually 3X what I planned), and what I would be willing to pay... Well, I couldn't afford me. :)

NONE of the visible crimps would pass my inspection. That red one is an el-cheapo butt splice. It looks like the others are too, but I cannot really see. EVERY splice that I use is heat shrink, and adhesive lined.
 
#25 · (Edited)
"Professional" means that someone got paid to do the installation. It does not mean that they did it right.
I beg to differ. I'm a Carpenter, and I can take one look at a project and tell you if it was done by a pro or a handyman. I have worked with many carpenters who are "union journeyman", but are certainly not pros. Though, we both got paid. In certain areas I don't consider myself a pro. For example, cabinet making. I can certainly make cabinets for you. However, it would take me longer than someone who does it regularly, yet a lot less time than Joe handyman. You probably couldn't tell the difference between my finished product and the cabinetmaker's (unlike Joe handyman). However, I wouldn't present myself as a cabinetmaker, even if you paid me. It's simply not worth my time and your money! So, no....being a pro is not simply about being paid.

One thing I have learned from this thread is that the standards for marine factory dealers is lower than I realized, having dealt with only one shop who's standards are high. However, come to think of it, I know of a boat yard who flies several factory banners including Yanmar's and I wouldn't let that yard touch my boat!
 
#19 ·
Hard to say about the panel from that shot.. but the cover flap doesn't look new..

The shift/throttle is definitely not A-4 vintage.
 
#23 ·




On all my old boats EVEN the second J24 on which i fail to understand how you can hack up 5 switches ?

I just give up and make a pile in the front yard as its faster







And bit by bit put something back in that works without worry



When you have to pull 6000' of wire into one these things you really want to ID it and try and keep it a bit neat

 
#32 ·
Mainesail's charge to consult is fine and I suspect, in his case, you get some seriously valuable advice. However, I had a real headbutt with a yard that charged me an undisclosed "travel" fee, when they brought in a pro. The idea didn't bother me, it was the fact that I had no idea they weren't already in town and no one told me of this fee.

When I asked what the charge was, I pushed back on not having been told. The yard manager got upset and argued that he had "consulted" on this job for many hours without ever charging me for it. To this day, it has left a sour taste in my mouth. I'm happy to pay anything we've agreed to upfront. You can't collect later, if you didn't advertise the price. In this circumstance, the consulting that he thought he was providing for value, just appeared to me to be research he was doing because he had no idea how to diagnose the problem. In other words, I wasn't receiving professional advice or answers, he was doing work to educate himself.
 
#33 ·
Most of the panels I've seen look like this. The condition of the wire terminations is the most important factor, not whether the wires are neat, although I would attempt to make them look a little better than that. A couple of things to consider when neatening up wiring harnesses are 1. that electronic devices like GPS, depth finders, and radar may be adversely affected by Rf interference if bundled together so they look nice and 2. if you pack wires together tightly, when one shorts out, you are likely to burn the entire bundle and in fact are much more likely to start a fire. So, some wires have a good reason to be separate and not so neat looking. That doesn't mean they should be like spaghetti.
 
#34 ·
I've seen some really OCD wiring that had tie wraps every 6" or even less - they would be an absolute nightmare if you had to try to remove a single wire. Better to put them in looms of some sort like that corrugated split conduit used in cars. It even comes in colours now so you can separate circuits for when they approach the panel.
 
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#37 ·
I just found that the "cigarette lighter"-type power outlet in the cabin is powered straight off the batteries. It has a 20ft run of what looks like 18 gauge wire, unfused. I was going to run an inverter off it, now I'm too scared.

What's the best way to wire a small inverter in? I was thinking of connecting it to a spare breaker, it's a 10A one so I'll be limited to 120W from the inverter but that's OK for me. The inverter is to power a 19" LCD TV and DVD player, maybe charge the odd battery too (like the handheld VHF)
 
#38 · (Edited)
That is dangerous. It should be fused within 7" of the battery to meet USCG specs. If it's 18ga wire, it can only take around 10 amps which could be exceeded by something like big a hand-held spotlight. Even small inverters need substantial sized wiring. If I recall correctly, the little 600w. unit I installed called for #6. I mounted a small fuse block within legal distance to battery bank to handle things like radios and inverter that are better run directly to battery. If you have radios, make sure you get a pure sine wave inverter because inverters put out a lot of Rf interference. Use of ferrite chokes can cut down on it but interference is a problem even with pure sine wave inverters.
 
#39 ·
Every time I try to cheat on an electrical project, it bites me in the butt. For example, I had a professionally installed tank level gauge that wasn't working. It had 12v power for lights and the monitor leads. I replaced the gauge and the sensor at the tank, but decided at the last minute to reuse the wiring (I had actually purchased all new colored wiring for the job). It's never worked properly! Going to be fully redone this spring and I deserve the waste of time. It should have been done right in the first place.

Always start electrical projects from the source and know its right. Safer too.
 
#42 · (Edited)
Every time I try to cheat on an electrical project, it bites me in the butt. For example, I had a professionally installed tank level gauge that wasn't working. It had 12v power for lights and the monitor leads. I replaced the gauge and the sensor at the tank, but decided at the last minute to reuse the wiring (I had actually purchased all new colored wiring for the job). It's never worked properly! Going to be fully redone this spring and I deserve the waste of time. It should have been done right in the first place. Always start electrical projects from the source and know its right. Safer too.
While I'm not cheap, and believe in doing things correctly, I found myself taking shortcuts when it came to marine electrical work, like not using marine grade wire and connectors. This was due to not wanting to get fleeced at a marine supply. While my work was better than anything that had been done on my boat (and was certainly better than the work in the OP!), I never felt good about it.

I found this online supply Marine Wiring, Boat Cable and Electrical Genuinedealz.com on this forum and like to spread the word.

It's funny...I now find doing the job correctly enjoyable, now that I'm not getting screwed. Highly recommended.
 
#40 · (Edited)
L-
It wasn't done by a licensed electrician, that's for sure. I see a red butt splice hanging in space, no harness wrap, no wires secured to the hull, everything hanging in space. No drip loops on the wires, some quite the contrary, and open daylight on the left which means water ingress as well.
Looks more like something the average car audio/alarm installer would have done, good for 3-5 years and then problematic. If the crimps are adhesive filled and heat shrink, ok, maybe. If they're just dime-store crimps...Just get the warranty in writing and figure it will take you a half day to really clean it up right. It probably really is an "average" job, sad to say. But letting the wrenches do wiring, or requiring them to do it, is sadly the norm and one skill set does not necessarily mean the guy will have the other.
 
#41 · (Edited)
Having everything nicely tied with wire ties and the harness neatly bundled can make heating problems and cross talk issues real bears to sort out. I have fought these problems in marine and industrial installations. That does not mean the wiring has to look like a backlash on a casting reel. It does mean that things often work better and are easier to figure out if the different circuits can be kept separate as much as possible.

Have FUN! (This is supposed to be fun isn't it?)
O'
p.s. How'd I get to be a "Senior Member"? The only qualification I have is that I am an old fart. Is that all it takes?
 
#43 ·
Since I see my post resurrected from last year, I thought I would add a follow up. I cut away the entire old wiring harness and ran all new color coded wire from the tank sensor to the level gauge. I forgot that the reused harness wasn't even the proper wire size recommended for the new gauge. Naturally it was smaller.

Once I did the job right, all worked properly.

I didn't have time to do it right the first time, so I had to find time to do it over!!
 
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