Alternator wiring issue... - SailNet Community
 3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 24 Old 02-23-2013 Thread Starter
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 16,382
Thanks: 101
Thanked 304 Times in 294 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Alternator wiring issue...

Gents.. When we bought our boat it had what I was told was a 'home made' alternator field current controller (a PPO was an electrical engineer)- with an off/on switch, an adjustment pot. I don't think it actually functioned as we have an alternator charge current meter and were unable to 'see' any change. btw one of the wires involved in this scheme actually 'entered' the body of the alternator - not on any factory connection.

When we had our alternator upgraded and overhauled the shop said just to leave that field wire disconnected, that it was now ineffective and not needed (same could be said for the 'controller', I guess)

We are just about to order and install a Balmar 614 smart reg, and I wanted to fully suss out what was 'there', and the drawing below reflects what I think I've found.

From my internet searching it seems I only really need the output line, and the tach line and the blue D wire, which I assume to be the field and which is now common with the B+. I'm not charging very efficiently and I'm now wondering if part of the issue is this setup (initially to accommodate the 'controller') I even have a hand drawn schematic of that device, it's still in place but 'turned off' and disconnected at the alternator. Seems I should be able to simply remove everything associated with that old controller - but what about the blue wire? I'm assuming the Balmar will make use of it separately?

Gotta love years-old mickey duck wiring schemes......

Any ideas? I guess my main questions are:

1. Is this setup as shown (that's what's there now) a workable one?

2. Should I just cut out everything associated with the 'controller'?

3. Any other issues wrt to wiring in the Balmar?


Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)

Last edited by Faster; 02-23-2013 at 07:09 PM.
Faster is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 Old 02-23-2013
Senior Member
 
Capt. Gary Randall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mongolia
Posts: 379
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Alternator wiring issue...

hello there, I am assuming that D+ field is directly connected to battery positive? in wiring scheme there will always be a current draw from your batteries. D+ field should be connected to the ignition switch on your engine and in the off position when your engine is shut down. It also should be on the other side of the shunt where it can monitor the voltage directly accurate/ ignition switch. The fact that you have an internally regulated alternator should be good in itself, as long as the field can monitor the voltage on the other side of the shunt. ( ignition switch) I would remove all the other homemade regulator and once the field can monitor the correct voltage you will find a improvement in the way your charge gauge reads. Directly because it cannot read correctly on the alternator side of the shunt assuming that you are using a amp gauge that is controlled by the shunt. Hopefully I have helped you out here. CaptG


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
[SIGPIC] The only difference between an ordeal and a adventure is your attitude!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Capt. Gary Randall is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 24 Old 02-23-2013 Thread Starter
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 16,382
Thanks: 101
Thanked 304 Times in 294 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Alternator wiring issue...

Thanks Gary.. to clarify, it's wired exactly as shown.. essentially D+ and B+ are joined 3 inches from the alternator plug, then that carries on to the battery isolator. With the isolator in line I suppose we're not 'directly' connected to any battery positive.... This is what makes me wonder if that alone is inhibiting my charging capability.

I have no problem going to a smart reg in any event, but I'm thinking this may be part of why I feel our alternator is under performing.

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 24 Old 02-23-2013
Senior Member
 
Capt. Gary Randall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mongolia
Posts: 379
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Alternator wiring issue...

B+ should be wired to common on battery switch D+ should be wired to ignition switch so there is no current running to D+ when the engine is off. With this option you can charge either your house bank or your engine bank or both. This will also allow the shunt to read accurately,provided all connections to the shunt are clean. with this wiring configuration you should not need another regulator other than the internal regulator on the alternator.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
[SIGPIC] The only difference between an ordeal and a adventure is your attitude!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Capt. Gary Randall is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 24 Old 02-23-2013
Senior Member
 
Maine Sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,791
Thanks: 18
Thanked 206 Times in 155 Posts
Rep Power: 16
       
Re: Alternator wiring issue...

Faster,

Lose the diode isolator. Lose the home made parts. Make sure your alt has been wired for external regulation. D+ on most Bosch alts not a field terminal. The D+ term on most Bosch alts is for a dash lamp. It uses the dash lamp to excite and start up. Any good shop can bring a field wire out for you. Be sure it is wired as a "P" type for the field..
Faster likes this.

______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.


Maine Sail is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 24 Old 02-23-2013 Thread Starter
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 16,382
Thanks: 101
Thanked 304 Times in 294 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Alternator wiring issue...

Thanks, Maine.. when you say 'lose the isolater'... do I replace it with something else? Actually in light of all this I'm considering tossing the mess and starting over with a Balmar/equiv alternator too.....

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 24 Old 02-23-2013
Senior Member
 
Capt. Gary Randall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mongolia
Posts: 379
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Alternator wiring issue...

SailNet Community - Capt. Gary Randall's Album: fun - Picture


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
[SIGPIC] The only difference between an ordeal and a adventure is your attitude!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Capt. Gary Randall is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 24 Old 02-23-2013
Senior Member
 
Maine Sail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Maine Coast
Posts: 5,791
Thanks: 18
Thanked 206 Times in 155 Posts
Rep Power: 16
       
Re: Alternator wiring issue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Thanks, Maine.. when you say 'lose the isolater'... do I replace it with something else? Actually in light of all this I'm considering tossing the mess and starting over with a Balmar/equiv alternator too.....
You can replace it with a Balmar Duo Charge, Automatic Combining Relay, Echo Charger or one of the Sterling battery to battery chargers.

When you do any of these upgrades;

1 run the alt output B+ direct to the house bank

2 run the MC-614 voltage sense wire direct to the house bank

3 Use the same sized neg wire for the alt as you have for pos and make sure it too has clean connections back to the house bank. (preferably NOT though the engine block)

4 insert a Duo, Echo or ACR between the house and start banks and let it take care of the start battery.

5 Install fusing for the alternator output and sense wire within 7" of the house bank + terminal.

6 It is a good idea to fit a "service disconnect" for the alt output in the engine room so when working on the engine the alt is not live.

7make sure that shunt is robust enough for the output of that alt and those connections are good and clean. Any shunt in the + wiring should be 100% protected from shorts by means of covering it. This is why most battery monitor shunts are installed in the neg lead not the pos..

If you have a battery monitor you could also get rid of the alt shunt and ammeter.
Faster likes this.

______
-Maine Sail / CS-36T


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.




Images In Posts Property of Compass Marine Inc.



Last edited by Maine Sail; 02-23-2013 at 08:43 PM.
Maine Sail is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 24 Old 02-23-2013
Senior Member
 
Capt. Gary Randall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mongolia
Posts: 379
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Alternator wiring issue...

as you can see I'm not much of an architect/lol but if you can figure this out and wire it the same I think you will be very satisfied with the charging system. Remember the important thing is that your shunt is wired on the wrong side of your field/therefore it cannot read voltage drop which is the way that your internal regulator is supposed to work. It is being fooled because the field is wired directly to battery positive. It cannot sense how much voltage you are using. Therefore if you wired to ignition switch it will not only read the requirement but also show a discharge when appropriate on the amp usage gauge . CaptG


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
[SIGPIC] The only difference between an ordeal and a adventure is your attitude!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Capt. Gary Randall is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 24 Old 02-23-2013 Thread Starter
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 16,382
Thanks: 101
Thanked 304 Times in 294 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Alternator wiring issue...

... taking notes.... much thanks

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
yanmar alternator wiring....help! twisted23 Electrical Systems 9 01-05-2011 09:18 PM
Inverter issue (maybe alternator based) contagous Gear & Maintenance 17 08-04-2010 07:03 PM
Autohelm Wiring Issue Hesper Electrical Systems 6 08-29-2009 06:05 AM
Alternator wiring to batteries huguley3 Gear & Maintenance 4 03-07-2009 07:46 AM
alternator wiring mystery hertfordnc Gear & Maintenance 3 04-21-2008 11:27 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome