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  #21  
Old 02-05-2014
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Re: Voyaging on $500 per month

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Originally Posted by aeventyr60 View Post
TDW-You'll think twice or more on this sailing through Indonesia.....
I think that's the sort of comment I was hoping for Aev. My comment was based on my own experience but as I said it may well depend on where you sail.

The only time I've been in a zero (effectively) visibility situation I found AIS more useful than Radar and at other times in reduced visibility the same.

Question for you .... how well do those small fishing boats stand out on Radar screen ? are they predominantly timber or is metal more prevalent these days.
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  #22  
Old 02-05-2014
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Re: Voyaging on $500 per month

Fuzzy, on the 3G and 4G radar systems they jump out at you. I was amazed at what you could see over a conventional radar system, and how well it could distinguish between two objects close together and objects very close to your boat. It's a pretty amazing system. The cost of both an AIS and 3G radar system combined to connect with my Lowrance HDS7 would be about $2,000 USD.

Gary
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  #23  
Old 02-05-2014
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Re: Voyaging on $500 per month

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Originally Posted by tdw View Post
Question for you .... how well do those small fishing boats stand out on Radar screen ? are they predominantly timber or is metal more prevalent these days.
This is off topic, but based on my experience wooden lobster boats didn't show up at all and if it hadn't been for their engine noise I would have cut them in half. But I could see lobster buoys that had small reflectors on them.
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  #24  
Old 02-05-2014
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Re: Voyaging on $500 per month

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Originally Posted by travlineasy View Post
Fuzzy, on the 3G and 4G radar systems they jump out at you. I was amazed at what you could see over a conventional radar system, and how well it could distinguish between two objects close together and objects very close to your boat. It's a pretty amazing system. The cost of both an AIS and 3G radar system combined to connect with my Lowrance HDS7 would be about $2,000 USD.
Good to know Gary. How good are these new systems in seeing squalls, fog banks, and other moisture-laden weather systems?

I'll likely be putting RADAR on the boat either this season or next before we head down the St. Lawrence. I currently make do without either, and we do deal with a lot of fog up here, especially early in the sailing season. What we don't have is a lot of traffic.

... I also plan to purchase an AIS receiver since I understand they are pretty cheap.
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  #25  
Old 02-05-2014
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Re: Voyaging on $500 per month

Take a look at this for the 3G Radar system demo.


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  #26  
Old 02-05-2014
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Re: Voyaging on $500 per month

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Originally Posted by MikeOReilly View Post
Good to know Gary. How good are these new systems in seeing squalls, fog banks, and other moisture-laden weather systems?

I'll likely be putting RADAR on the boat either this season or next before we head down the St. Lawrence. I currently make do without either, and we do deal with a lot of fog up here, especially early in the sailing season. What we don't have is a lot of traffic.

... I also plan to purchase an AIS receiver since I understand they are pretty cheap.
Mike... kudos to you... after seeing the current on the St. Lawrence I'm amazed anyone on a sailboat maneuvers safely... lots of powerboats but I have not seen a sailboat going down or up the river...

Regarding the AIS I think it's better to start a new thread on this rather than overtake this thread with AIS/radar discussions... liking the responses so far on the <$500 thread and those that actually have done the less than $$$ need to come on board with the real world costs on sailboats less than 27 feet... more likely 22-25 feet range.
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Old 02-05-2014
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Re: Voyaging on $500 per month

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Originally Posted by svzephyr44 View Post
I guess that like the cost of cruising "it depends." Mostly it depends on where you cruise. As pointed out there are areas where AIS is of very limited use - primary because few other boats are equipped. In those areas where there is high usage a receive only unit can help you scope out what is going on - helpful when approaching ports like New York or Miami or transiting areas with a lot of ship traffic like the Delaware Bay. As I pointed out in my previous post my experience is that larger ships have difficulty figuring out exactly where you are from a Lat/Long. I doubt they calculate CPA and time to CPA. The advantage of a transmit AIS is that their chart plotter gives them all of that information. It also gives them the name of your vessel so they don't have to call the boat at "approximately Lat/Long whatever."

With a receive only AIS you know that other ships are out there, their name, course, speed, CPA and time to CPA. This helps the Mark II eyeball locate them. With a transmit AIS they know you are there and they have the same information about you. It makes communication easier.

If you have a reasonably reliable full time watch in the cockpit or you are operating where there are not many AIS equipped ships one might take a pass. Or choose to invest in something else.

Risking the ire of newhaul and MikeORilley et al let me point out two items:

1. You used the term prudent. What is prudent for some may be overkill/inadequate for others - depending on budget, cruising style, cruising location, appetite for risk, etc. I am fortunate that I had enough money before I retired to have a pretty complete electronics suite - not everyone needs one or desires to own one. Over the course of some 15,000+ NM of cruising I have been relieved at some time that I had each element of the system on board. Did I need radar in the Caribbean? No. Did I need it in Nova Scotia and Newfoundland? Yes. My AIS came in handy when crossing the shipping lanes on my approach to Portugal. Watching 25 ships alter their course to give me 1 NM CPA was a great relief. I was coming off 8 days of 24/7 single handing in the Atlantic Ocean and I was tired. It was nice to not have to call each ship and say "do you see me?"

2. If you look at modern marine electronics the core of any system is the chart plotter - now properly renamed a "multi-function" display. Most modern multi-function displays are not only the core unit but the most expensive single item in the budget. Once you have the multi-function display the peripherals are less expensive e.g.
Transmit/Receive AIS $500
Radar $900
Depth Sounder - a transducer alone maybe $150
and so on.

Usually integration will cost a bit more - my VHF radio integrates with my multi-function display. It lets me push a button to call a ship that is displayed as an AIS target. Is it necessary? No. Is it kind of cool? Yes. I think the added integration cost was about $50.

For those on a limited budget - and we all are, our budgets just vary - the order and need for various electronic devices varies a great deal. The single most important instrument on my boat when I crossed the Atlantic was an MF/HF radio (OK, after the GPS.) I could get weather, report my position on a daily basis, and chat - important when you are at sea for 15 or 20 days alone. Useful in the ICW? Not at all.

We could assist you in your purchasing plans a bit better if you told us a bit more about how you intend to use your boat.

Fair winds and following seas.
Thanks for the feedback on the AIS system... I think we should open up a new thread and discuss the AIS/radar systems.
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  #28  
Old 02-05-2014
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Re: Voyaging on $500 per month

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Originally Posted by guitarguy56 View Post
Thanks for the feedback on the AIS system... I think we should open up a new thread and discuss the AIS/radar systems.
Go ahead and start a thread. We can cut and paste some of what has been written here or link to it.
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  #29  
Old 02-05-2014
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Re: Voyaging on $500 per month

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Originally Posted by tdw View Post
I think that's the sort of comment I was hoping for Aev. My comment was based on my own experience but as I said it may well depend on where you sail.

The only time I've been in a zero (effectively) visibility situation I found AIS more useful than Radar and at other times in reduced visibility the same.

Question for you .... how well do those small fishing boats stand out on Radar screen ? are they predominantly timber or is metal more prevalent these days.
Andrew, I sailed across the Indian Ocean below Sri Lanka and on to Indonesia. There are dozens of long liners operating out there and whilst I don't know this, I would be astonished (looking at the nature of the vessels) if even one of them have AIS. But they all paint on my radar.

Also when you're sailing in the South Pacific, the islands and atolls don't run AIS.

So I don't pooh-pooh AIS, will probably install one before my next voyage, but would never trade my radar for AIS.
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  #30  
Old 02-05-2014
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Re: Voyaging on $500 per month

Andre, Aev ..... I appreciate the your comments and I gues I should really apologise to everyone else for the hijack. Sorry about, I do tend to run off at the keyboard.

I confess to having very little experience with Radar but I am strating to see where it has great advantages over AIS.

see new thread.
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