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Does anyone have false alarms on Standard Horizon GX2000 (and possibly other GX2xxx)?
There is a long thread in this forum about my search for the perfect AIS (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/electronics/164993-ais-should-i-buy-2.html). Thanks to the helpful contributions of several members, I found exactly that, the perfect solution (for me): Vesper Marine black box AIS combined with Standard Horizon GX2000 for display. See the thread for details.
Here is the problem: while in theory this does everything I need, in practice there is a severe problem with false alarms with the GX2000. It generates several false alarms PER HOUR. They all seem to be TCPA alarms. This makes the alarm function useless. Which is a shame since this is exactly why I bought the whole darn thing.
I have three instances on video (which I sent to Yaesu). One example, this is the 'Info' I get for one specific alarm:
Clearly the TCPA is wrong and this leads to the alarm. TCPA alarm was set to 1minute and CPA to 1nm.
I have reset the radio (by instruction from SH). Did not make a difference. Then SH asked me to send the radio to them (a bit of a pain since it was soldered into the boat, with something like a dozen connections that I had to hack apart). Now they have it for more than 2 weeks and they say that they have observed so far 2 false alarms. They say they will replace the radio but, honestly, I am not optimistic that will solve the problem. This does not smell like a hardware problem to me, and if it is a software issue, replacing the hardware will not do anything.
When I discussed this in the other thread (see above), there was another poster (Take Five) who said that his GX2150 may have the same problem. He decided to just give up on the alarm function. I mentioned to Yaesu/SH that this may be wider problem and they said they had never heard of it.
So, here is my question: Does anyone else have false TCPA alarms with the GX2000, or another type in this series?
On my last boat I had installed a GX2100 back in 2011 or so. I interfaced it with my Lowrance plotter and it worked fine. No false alarms, accurate display of AIS information. I also connected it to a laptop running seaclear and that worked fine too.
That would definitely be the preferred outcome, that they send me a new radio and everything works. But I cannot think of a hardware problem that would result in a wrong computation. I can think of MANY ways to get that in software
Did you use the alarm function on the radio or on the plotter? The AIS information shown on the radio display seems to be correct (when I compare with OpenCPN), as are values like distance and CPA. What is wrong is the computed TCPA.
Also, of course, if we are comparing a GX2100 from 2011 to a GX2000 in 2015, they differ probably by several generations/threads of software. Many opportunities to screw it up
Well, given the (absence of) response, there does not seem to be an epidemic of false alarms. Perhaps Barry is right and I got an outlier. Hopefully the replacement will work flawlessly.
I certainly will come back here and update everybody.
Uck. Sorry to hear that you found the impossible bug. Your setup does sound ideal in theory but not if thete are ghosts in tbe machine. Good luck getting it resolved and I owe you a beer for saving me from this same issue.
Well, I don't even know for sure that they suspect an incompatibility with the Vespermarine. I said they "seem" to think that because they asked me what firmware the XB8000 runs.
But here we have another example of my observation that everything takes forever: I sent them the information about the firmware version last weekend, plus hundreds of megabytes of data for debugging. I thought I would do them a big favor capturing all the NEMA messages but they did not even acknowledge reception. I asked them to let me know when they get it so I can take it from my dropbox account which is close to full.
I have several Yaesu radios (both marine and ham) and always liked the brand. They always worked great, this is the first time I have a serious problem. Really a big disappointment.
No, I haven't contacted Vesper. Was I supposed to? Nobody suggested that so far.
So do you think there is a problem with the data provided by the XB8000? I don't know much how AIS works but I thought that an AIS box like the Vespermarine XB8000 sends events (like the positions of my own vessel and those of others) and that this data is then used to compute things like CPA, TCPA etc by downstream users like chartplotters or radios.
It's pretty sad that these companies don't really stand behind their products reputation. I purchased a Lowrance chart plotter at a boat show on the recommendation that it would work with a SH GX 2100. I then went to the SH rep at the same show and told him what Lowrance product I was buying and asked if it would be compatible. I was also told that there was no way the GX2200 would receive a GPS signal in the cabin of my 30 ft sailboat, even though I told him my garmin gpsmap hand held, iphone and even my old, OLD garmin gps backup worked below decks. I was told I would have to run an external antenna but wiring it to my chartplotter would work fine.
Well since then I have seen GX2200 running below decks without antenna's.
Long story short, after lots of time in tech support - they "probably" are not compatible, but who the hell really knows because I had to figure it out on my own. Probably more the Lorance rep's fault but it still shows the sorry state of salesmanship when no one ever offered a bit of help beyond listening politely and telling me over and over that it "should work".
In my line of work, when something goes wrong for the customer it gets fixed as soon as possible with follow up calls to make sure everyone is happy and we get return business.
So the OP's unit gave false alarms in their office, yet they sent you what was probably someone else's return missing bits. Sad.
Does it really matter to SH's bottom line that they sent you something with a missing wire rather than a brand spanking new item off the warehouse shelf? If it was my company I would have sent you an upgraded model for your trouble. Standard Horizons fault or not, you are a frustrated customer having a bad experience. I would think they would to ensure that you buy your next radio from them.
For the record, if you are reading this SH, there are many companies that do go the extra mile, without being asked, begged and pleaded with.
Long story short, after lots of time in tech support - they "probably" are not compatible, but who the hell really knows because I had to figure it out on my own.
This document clearly explains why the GX2100 is not compatible with plotters with one COM port, which the Lowrance is.
I had a lot of problems connecting my Lowrance HDS 5 to my SH GX2150. However, the problem was that Lowrance's information was rubbish. Standard Horizon's was spot on. In my experience, SH's support has been excellent, although I've never tried to get the AIS bug addressed.
I would not call that a solution... I bought the whole system (AIS box plus a radio that understands it) specifically as safety equipment because I had an experience that could have ended very badly.
If I don't get an alarm when i am about to collide with a ship, I don't need the whole thing.
...When I discussed this in the other thread (see above), there was another poster (Take Five) who said that his GX2150 may have the same problem. He decided to just give up on the alarm function...
My GX2150 might have the same problem. I don't know because I turned the alarms off and instead rely on the alarm features of OpenCPN, which are highly configurable. And since I have it at the helm on a tablet, I can dismiss an alarm by just tapping the "Acknowledge" button on the screen.
Thanks for the heads-up, because I would have no way of knowing whether my radio has the same bug.
I did not "just give up" on the alarm function. I did not want duplicate alarms, and I decided to display them on OpenCPN instead of on the radio. This was not done in response to a problem with the radio. It was done before I put the radio into service, so I do not know whether it is a problem or not.
I tend to agree with Yaesu/SH on this one. If people's GX2150 units generated a lot of AIS false alarms, they would have a lot of complaints, since the vast majority of users leave the default alarms on. If they have not received complaints, it is a sign that this problem is limited to the GX2000, and not shared with the GX2150.
I need to clarify, because you do paint a misleading picture by mischaracterizing my remarks.
My quote is:
I did not "just give up" on the alarm function. I did not want duplicate alarms, and I decided to display them on OpenCPN instead of on the radio. This was not done in response to a problem with the radio. It was done before I put the radio into service, so I do not know whether it is a problem or not.
I tend to agree with Yaesu/SH on this one. If people's GX2150 units generated a lot of AIS false alarms, they would have a lot of complaints, since the vast majority of users leave the default alarms on. If they have not received complaints, it is a sign that this problem is limited to the GX2000, and not shared with the GX2150.
My apologies if I misrepresented your comments, that was not my intent. You said that "My GX2150 might have the same problem" and that you turned off the alarms. I interpreted this as meaning you turned it off BECAUSE there was some problem with the alarms. I did not know that you turned it off before installing it. My mistake for reading something in your remarks that was not intended.
BTW, I also have OpenCPN but it is at the nav station, not at the helm. I usually single hand and sometimes I cannot leave the tiller (or even open the companion way hatch), especially in difficult situations (e.g. a violent thunderstorm in traffic...). The (admittedly crude) AIS display on the SH remote mike which I have in the cockpit gives me at least the most critical information, namely WHERE the ship I am about to collide with is relative to me.
I am sure that we can resolve the false TCPA alarm issue that you are experiencing. I reviewed the emails that you sent technical support, my recommendation is to update the Vesper Marine AIS XB-8000 to to the most current Application Version 2.04.10316 and AIS version 5.11.10680. According to the emails your current Application version is 2.01.9102 and AIS version 5.09.8187. After updating the XB-8000 let me know if you are still receiving the false TCPA alarms. I will send you an email with my cell phone number, please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
Wow, that is great! I am very eager to do the firmware update but unfortunately I am far away from my boat right now (life interfering with sailing...).
I will keep everybody posted as soon as I know more, which will be one I am back in a couple weeks.
One more data point... I have a GX2100, and have NEVER - to the best of my knowledge - had a false alarm... The operation has been flawless, all that I could possibly ask for...
My apologies, I've not followed your saga from the beginning, but what is the point of the Vesper black box, anyway? Is it to give you a transponder, as well? Why not go with a stand alone Vesper unit, instead, for a couple of hundred bucks more?
Seems a classic example of disobeying the KISS principle ;-) With the incredible complexity of some of the networking and interfacing I see on some of these boats today, I'm never surprised when 'issues' arise, particularly between equipment from different manufacturers...
AIS is a pretty simple system, after all... Some folks really seem intent on making it complicated, there's a thread over on CF at the moment about getting AIS from the internet while at sea that's a real head scratcher... ;-)
Good luck with resolving your issue, hope you can get it to work... As one who does a fair bit of solo sailing, not being able to trust the alarm greatly diminishes the value of AIS, for me...
He has the GX2000 (does not come with AIS) and is using it as a display for vesper AIS. This way he can have display via the radio and I assume a ram mic at the helm. Since he is using Vesper AIS then he is broadcasting his location as well as receive others. I am assuming this is part of a "KISS" install avoiding a dedicated chart-plotter.
Thank you for your comments, at Standard Horizon we pride ourselves on our customer service. It is very unfortunate that MastUndSchotbruch's issue was not resolved in a timely manner. I will continue to monitor the issue personally until it is resolved.
Regarding your experience, please send me more details regarding the boat show and year that you attended so I can discuss this with the appropriate sales person. Please note that the GX2200 and GX1700 radios with built in GPS antennas both receive GPS signals in many of the boat shows that we attend as well as many of the dealer retail locations where the radios are on display. In fact at the Toronto Boat show we receive GPS data even with snow on the roof of the convention center. Please note that the GPS reception will depend on the construction of the vessel or building. The GX2200 is supplied with 66 Channel GPS antenna and should not experience any issues in your 30 foot sail boat. One recommendation is to not block the front panel of the GX2200 with a wooden shelf or other electronics. Is it possible that you spoke with one of our dealers and not a factory sales person? Which model Lowrance did you purchase? Also please confirm the Standard Horizon VHF radio model number, in your post you mentioned the GX2100, is it possible that you purchased the GX2150, please note that the GX2100 Matrix AIS was replaced by the GX2150 Matrix AIS+ in 2011 and the GX2200 Matrix AIS/GPS replaced the GX2150 Matrix AIS+ in 2014.
GX2000 Matrix is capable of displaying AIS info from an AIS receiver or transponder (Available 2010 to present)
GX2100 Matrix AIS with built in AIS receivers (Available January 2010 to 2011)
GX2150 Matrix AIS+ with built in AIS receivers (Available January 2011 to 2014)
*Added 4800 or 38400 NMEA baud rate selection, for plotters with 1 NMEA port (note the majority of chartplotters have multiple in/outputs, we changed the radio to be compatible with the minority of chartplotters on the market, recently there have been a few chartplotter released without NMEA 0183 data in/output, only NMEA 2000)
GX2200 Matrix AIS/GPS with built in AIS and GPS receivers (Available January 2014 to present)
I look forward to changing your opinion about Standard Horizon and our sales support. I apologize for not monitoring Sailnet for the past few years, you will see that I am active on TheHullTruth and CruisersFourm and I promise to be more active on Sailnet. Please send me details regarding any other forums that you think Standard Horizon should monitor. Please feel free to contact me regarding questions or concerns you may have regarding Standard Horizon products.
Jason Kennedy
Executive Vice President
Standard Horizon
Thank you for your comments, at Standard Horizon we pride ourselves on our customer service. It is very unfortunate that MastUndSchotbruch's issue was not resolved in a timely manner. I will continue to monitor the issue personally until it is resolved.
Regarding your experience, please send me more details regarding the boat show and year that you attended so I can discuss this with the appropriate sales person. Please note that the GX2200 and GX1700 radios with built in GPS antennas both receive GPS signals in many of the boat shows that we attend as well as many of the dealer retail locations where the radios are on display. In fact at the Toronto Boat show we receive GPS data even with snow on the roof of the convention center. Please note that the GPS reception will depend on the construction of the vessel or building. The GX2200 is supplied with 66 Channel GPS antenna and should not experience any issues in your 30 foot sail boat. One recommendation is to not block the front panel of the GX2200 with a wooden shelf or other electronics. Is it possible that you spoke with one of our dealers and not a factory sales person? Which model Lowrance did you purchase? Also please confirm the Standard Horizon VHF radio model number, in your post you mentioned the GX2100, is it possible that you purchased the GX2150, please note that the GX2100 Matrix AIS was replaced by the GX2150 Matrix AIS+ in 2011 and the GX2200 Matrix AIS/GPS replaced the GX2150 Matrix AIS+ in 2014.
GX2000 Matrix is capable of displaying AIS info from an AIS receiver or transponder (Available 2010 to present)
GX2100 Matrix AIS with built in AIS receivers (Available January 2010 to 2011)
GX2150 Matrix AIS+ with built in AIS receivers (Available January 2011 to 2014)
*Added 4800 or 38400 NMEA baud rate selection, for plotters with 1 NMEA port (note the majority of chartplotters have multiple in/outputs, we changed the radio to be compatible with the minority of chartplotters on the market, recently there have been a few chartplotter released without NMEA 0183 data in/output, only NMEA 2000)
GX2200 Matrix AIS/GPS with built in AIS and GPS receivers (Available January 2014 to present)
I look forward to changing your opinion about Standard Horizon and our sales support. I apologize for not monitoring Sailnet for the past few years, you will see that I am active on TheHullTruth and CruisersFourm and I promise to be more active on Sailnet. Please send me details regarding any other forums that you think Standard Horizon should monitor. Please feel free to contact me regarding questions or concerns you may have regarding Standard Horizon products.
Jason Kennedy
Executive Vice President
Standard Horizon
It must have been a 2150 (it has AIS receiver but no internal GPS antenna). I purchased it from Defender in March of 2013, at the Defender show and spoke with the salesman at the SH booth.
My problem is not with the quality of Standard Horizon's products. I have never owned anything but SH's VHF products. In addition to the 2150, I currently have two hand held's (one an HX870 that is amazing).
The AIS now get's it's GPS input from an old Garman GPSMap 76 in lieu of the Lowrance Elite 5 Gold, I gave up trying to get them to communicate. I showed both products to both salespersons at both Lowrance and SH and asked them if they would be compatible and would display the AIS information on each other's screens and they all agreed.
The Defender boat show is a zoo and again, in the end it's my fault for not digging deep enough. Sometimes I put my trust in salespeople too much I guess....
Send me your NMEA log files and I'll be happy to run them through my OpenCPN install. I'll also need your radio's alarm settings for CPA and TCPA, so I can duplicate which alarms are "FALSE" and "TRUE".
That is a very generous offer. But I don't think what I captured is in the most useful form.
There are two types of files: One has all the NEMA sequences, in ASCII as sent from the AIS box. The other (recorded NOT at the same time) is a screen capture showing a debugging window with all NEMA messages coming from the XB8000. I also recorded simultaneously the ambient sound (computer's built-in microphone). So you see everything that is sent from the XB8000 and hear the alarms sounding on the GX2000.
BUT: This is not in computer readable format, you would literally have to see this on the screen. And I opened up the alarms on the radio so I would get the maximum number of events, to see how the radio and AIS box play along, rather than only the false alarms.
This is likely not the most useful format but remember that I had no idea if anybody would even be interested in this. So I did not spend a lot of time in devising a strict measurement protocol.
I would be happy to share these data with you but it might be time sink to work with that. It might be better to wait until I updated the firmware on the XB8000 and see if that solves the problem. If not, I will spend some more time to get everything in a more useful format (I will talk to SH to see what exactly they need, now that a new chain of communications seems to be opened here with Jason).
If you still want to play with it, let me know and we will find a way to get the data to you.
Thanks, Maine. Now if SH would just add N2K to their products...
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