SSB Installation - Page 13 - SailNet Community
 3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #121 of 170 Old 04-05-2013
Mermaid Hunter
 
SVAuspicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: on the boat - Chesapeake
Posts: 3,984
Thanks: 0
Thanked 158 Times in 141 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: forward power problem on ham radio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anhinga View Post
We are General licensed Amateur Hams with our first Marine HF radio on
our sailboat. We are not new to receiving, just the transmitting. Our Fort Myers ham club really doesn't have members that is helpful or knowledgeable with our installation on our sailboat. We are hoping to get advice from other sailors.

We have an IC-706MKIIG, my husband has set up our back stay of 33 ft for our HF antennae. We have a separate antennae for VHF/UHF transmission. He has layed out copper grounding strap through out the boat.

Here's our problem. We don't seem to have enough forward power, we
were thinking that we needed more grounding and we finally got a
forward power of 11 watts when trying to transmit on the 40 meter
band. How do we get enough forward power to light off the
intellituner? We tried to transmit to water way net but they could
not hear us.

Any advice, or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. We are located
in Fort Myers Beach, and planning a Bahamas trip in 3 weeks!

KK4MPC aboard Anhinga
Hi Sharon,

Is Anhinga an Allied 39 ketch you bought from Don Rich?

How are you measuring forward power? Remember that in USB or LSB you only get power out when there is a modulating signal, like whistling into the microphone. It's easier to put the radio in CW and key it for full power output.

Describe your measurement process and we can help you better.

sail fast and eat well, dave
S/V Auspicious
AuspiciousWorks.com
beware "cut and paste" sailors.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
SVAuspicious is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #122 of 170 Old 04-05-2013
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Southern Florida
Posts: 2
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: SSB Installation

Anhinga is a 28 foot Phillip Rhodes sailboat. I am measuring forward power by our intellituner which usually asks us to increase power or it will tune at 11 watts. We usually do this by putting it in the 40 meter band, keying the mike, and saying test.

Before David added more copper strapping it was reading zero, now it's forward power is 11. I believe our antennae tuner requires 20 watts of forward power to be effective.
Anhinga is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #123 of 170 Old 04-05-2013
Mermaid Hunter
 
SVAuspicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: on the boat - Chesapeake
Posts: 3,984
Thanks: 0
Thanked 158 Times in 141 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: SSB Installation

Try putting it in CW and keying the transmitter. You may be able to key the radio by just pressing the mic button. If not, use a plug in either the key jack or the RTTY jack with a couple of wires.

Do be sure you have the power output set to high. Go through the steps for setting the mic gain as well - you are likely to find the optimum setting is different for you and your husband due to voice frequency ranges. Some compromise may be necessary. Lower gain is better than too high to avoid distortion.

If one of you can sustain a whistle for several seconds, whistling into the mic is better than saying "test."

sail fast and eat well, dave
S/V Auspicious
AuspiciousWorks.com
beware "cut and paste" sailors.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
SVAuspicious is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #124 of 170 Old 04-06-2013
Member
 
cvsheppard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Portland, Or.
Posts: 64
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: SSB Installation

Carl,

My boat came with a SG-230 Smart tuner but no SSB. Is there anyway to test this tuner for function and if it works which SSB would be best suited for this unit.

Carl #2

Carl

s/v Credence II
PSC 34 #159
Portland, Or
cvsheppard is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #125 of 170 Old 04-06-2013
Mermaid Hunter
 
SVAuspicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: on the boat - Chesapeake
Posts: 3,984
Thanks: 0
Thanked 158 Times in 141 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: SSB Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by cvsheppard View Post
My boat came with a SG-230 Smart tuner but no SSB. Is there anyway to test this tuner for function and if it works which SSB would be best suited for this unit.
The SGC tuners will work with anything. Check the connections from the antenna lug to your antenna, and from the ground lug to whatever ground and/or counterpoise system is installed.

If you can track down an accommodating cruiser or perhaps a local ham radio club you can bribe with a beer or two to bring a radio by and hook it up (preferably with an SWR meter) you'll be set.

You can find listings of ham clubs at ARRL.org.

sail fast and eat well, dave
S/V Auspicious
AuspiciousWorks.com
beware "cut and paste" sailors.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
SVAuspicious is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #126 of 170 Old 05-07-2014
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Sea of Abaco, Bahamas
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: SSB Installation

Hi

We installed an ICON M-802 transceiver with an ST-140 tuner in November 13, with a KISS groundplane. It has never worked successfully. I did the installation using the ICOM manual, the PowerPoint that ICOM directed me towards for installation and the 'ICOM M-802 Radio Manual for Idi-Yachts' book. On page 16 of the book there is a diagram that shows that you should NOT connect the green wire from the transceiver to the tuner. The Tuner should be connected via copper strap to a groundplane.

We are currently in the Caribbean and I had a local SSB tech look at the system (but he did not have any experience with a M-802) this week. As a result I have some questions:

1. Am I correct to say the KISS groundplane is NOT the same as the tuner groundplane?
2. Is the engine mount a suitable tuner groundplane as we have a fiberglass sailboat with plastic/pvc tanks?
3. The local SSB tech advised me that damage may have been done to the transceiver if the tuner was not properly grounded - is this correct?

Since being installed, all I have received is some very expensive static!

Martin
sailnet100 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #127 of 170 Old 05-07-2014
Mermaid Hunter
 
SVAuspicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: on the boat - Chesapeake
Posts: 3,984
Thanks: 0
Thanked 158 Times in 141 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: SSB Installation

Hi Martin,

I'm sorry you've had trouble.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailnet100 View Post
'ICOM M-802 Radio Manual for Idi-Yachts' book.
Not my favorite reference. Marti doesn't always communicate facts clearly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailnet100 View Post
On page 16 of the book there is a diagram that shows that you should NOT connect the green wire from the transceiver to the tuner. The Tuner should be connected via copper strap to a groundplane.
Unless you installed an isolator ( T-4 ) in the coax between the radio and the tuner there is already an RF ground between the two: the coax shield. Unfortunately there is also a ground connection through the tuner control cable. Adding a ground-to-ground wire between the radio and the tuner increases the potential for a ground loop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailnet100 View Post
1. Am I correct to say the KISS groundplane is NOT the same as the tuner groundplane?
The KISS is a counterpoise and not strictly speaking a ground. In some cases you can get away without one or the other but a proper installation will work better.

Connect the KISS to the ground stud on the tuner and route it as far from other conductors on the boat as you can. If you have to cross another connector, cross at a right angle.

Run a ground, preferably copper strap to a ground point. A Dynaplate is great. Alternatively, drill and tap a small hole in the foot of a bronze through hull and connect to that. Don't count on the engine or tanks as a true ground. Engines "ground" through the shaft and there are rotating connections that aren't very efficient. Tanks are not grounded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailnet100 View Post
2. Is the engine mount a suitable tuner groundplane as we have a fiberglass sailboat with plastic/pvc tanks?
No. See above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailnet100 View Post
3. The local SSB tech advised me that damage may have been done to the transceiver if the tuner was not properly grounded - is this correct?
No. The radio has what is called "foldback circuitry" that automatically reduces the output power of the radio to protect itself. It's pretty hard to mess it up.

sail fast and eat well, dave
S/V Auspicious
AuspiciousWorks.com
beware "cut and paste" sailors.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
SVAuspicious is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #128 of 170 Old 05-07-2014
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Sea of Abaco, Bahamas
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: SSB Installation

Thank you so much! Much has been cleared up for me now.

I have identified a through hull which i can tap ito and I am off in search of copper strapping ( .013" thick & 4~6' wide). Two reamaing questions:

1. The copper strap will be connected to the through hull on one end and the other is connecetd to the terminal on theST-120 WITH the KISS counterpoise - is that correct"
2. what is the mest method for termination of the copper strap? Do I fold and roll to fit into a connector or fold and drill?

Once again - thanks

M
sailnet100 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #129 of 170 Old 05-08-2014
Mermaid Hunter
 
SVAuspicious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: on the boat - Chesapeake
Posts: 3,984
Thanks: 0
Thanked 158 Times in 141 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: SSB Installation

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailnet100 View Post
1. The copper strap will be connected to the through hull on one end and the other is connecetd to the terminal on theST-120 WITH the KISS counterpoise - is that correct"
Hmm. You have an Icom M802 and an AT-120 tuner? Really? The AT-120 is fine, but I would have expected an AT-140.

Regardless, yes, the KISS counterpoise and the ground strap both connect to the ground stud on the tuner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailnet100 View Post
2. what is the mest method for termination of the copper strap? Do I fold and roll to fit into a connector or fold and drill?
I don't know if it's best, but what I do is to fold the end of the strap over so the end of the strap is along the side, like the first step of making a paper airplane. Take the point that's left and fold it over to the opposite side, ending up with a triangle with four layers of metal. Heat the triangle up with a torch and flow solder in. Get it hot so the solder flows - don't make a clumpy mess. Drill a hole for the ground stud (one end) and the tapped connection to the thru-hull (at the other). You may have to trim the apex of the triangle to make it fit.

sail fast and eat well, dave
S/V Auspicious
AuspiciousWorks.com
beware "cut and paste" sailors.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
SVAuspicious is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #130 of 170 Old 05-08-2014
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Sea of Abaco, Bahamas
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: SSB Installation

Thanks - you are a champ!

Actually, you were correct it is an AT-140 (I have dyslexic finger!) We are currently in Marsh harbor in the Sea of Abaco, so getting good information and parts/spares is to say the least – difficult.

Once I hunt down the copper strapping, I will try the radio again.

Many, many thanks

Martin
S/V ‘August Sun’
sailnet100 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
High-Frequency Radio Basics Kathy Barron Seamanship Articles 0 10-14-2000 08:00 PM
High-Frequency Radio Basics Kathy Barron Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 10-14-2000 08:00 PM
High-Frequency Radio Basics Kathy Barron Her Sailnet Articles 0 10-14-2000 08:00 PM
Choosing and Installing an SSB Radio Sue & Larry Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 09-28-2000 08:00 PM
Choosing and Installing an SSB Radio Sue & Larry Cruising Articles 0 09-28-2000 08:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome