SSB Installation - Page 8 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance > Electronics
 Not a Member? 
  #71  
Old 03-04-2010
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 80
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
cruisingmom is on a distinguished road
Need Help/Support with ICOMM-700 Upgrade (?)

Well I sold my SG-2000 on e-bay since I just couldn't get her to work properly (it was either my ignorance or it's functionality). I purchased a nice older ICOM M-700 that was checked out by a Ham friend of mine and now I want to hook it up to my SG-230 antenna coupler. Does anyone know the correct way to connect these two systems? SGC has a short bulletin connecting the IC-706 but I figured someone here must have connected the M-700 to the SG-230. Also the power cable for the M-700 has two (+) and two (-) pins on the 6 pin connector. The other two pins are not used (as per ICOM). DO I need to set up two dual cables to this pin connector or just go with one each. Is there a reason for this parallel set up?
Thanks so much in advance. Steep learning curve.
Andy
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #72  
Old 03-04-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 1,807
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 9
btrayfors will become famous soon enough btrayfors will become famous soon enough
The SG-230 will work with ANY HF radio. There's no special connection.

Two connections are required:

1. Coax between the M700 and the SG-230. This carries the RF signal from the transmitter to the tuner (and on to the antenna system).

2. A 12-volt DC connection. Very low amperage. Take the 12V from any convenient place, put a 1/2A fuse in line, and connect to the SG-230. This line should also be switched, so you can turn the power off when not in use. Connect the positive line to the red wire; negative line to the black wire. The other two wires aren't required (they offer Reset and Tuned functions, with an auxiliary control box). Tape them off.

You will have to have a decent RF ground also. What are you planning in this regard?

The SG-230 tunes when it senses RF on the line. At least 5 watts or so is required. Easiest way is to find an unused channel near the one you want to use, whistle into the mic for a few seconds, and the SG-230 will find a match. The tuner remembers these settings, and when you return to this channel it will tune instantaneously.

It's very good practice to put a cross-needle power/swr meter in the coax line near the radio. Best new one out there now: the Daiwa CN-101L. It's well worth the $99 online price (from Chuck Martin RF) as it gives continuous feedback on how your system is operating.

Good luck,

Bill
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #73  
Old 03-05-2010
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 80
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
cruisingmom is on a distinguished road
ICOM M-700 to SG-230

Hi Bill
Thanks for responding.

I found a 2 page (very poorly written) tech bulletin from SGC that describes using a 1000 uF capacitor and a 91 KOhm resistor inline between the combined Key Start pins and the pos. wire when connecting the SG-230 to the Icom M700 using the ICOM molex connector. This will "fool" the ICOM into thinking it is connected to an ICOM tuner and extend the tuning process. Are you saying that I don't need to do this and that if I just connect the Red(pos) and Black (neg) wires between the ICOM and the SG and tape the other two off, as well as the Coax antenna wire from the ICOM to the SG then it will still work? If so this makes the process much easier then trying to solder the cap and resist between the three wires. I believe that SGC is indicating that I can use the tune switch on the ICOM if I combine the Key and start wires from the Icom to the single red-white wire of the SG-230 but that quick tuning will not be possible without the cap and resistor - is this correct? Also my other question is that the molex power cable to the ICOM has 2 pos and 2 neg in parallel (and 2 non-used pins). Is it necessary to have 4 wires or will just 1 set of pos and neg be sufficient? Why the redundancy?
I have two ground plates thru the hull and copper foil connecting them and spread around the aft cabin floor for grounding.
Thanks again
Andy
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #74  
Old 03-05-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 134
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
fairbank56 is on a distinguished road
You must use all four wires of the power plug. It's not for redundancy, it's so the current demand is split between the wires so that they are able to use smaller more maneagable wiring and smaller plug/receptacle pin size.

The special interface circuit you describe is not really necessary. The advantage of using an Icom tuner with an Icom SSB is that when you use the tune function, the radio puts out about 10 watts of power. The tuner switches in an attenuator circuit so that less than 300 milliwatts is actually sent out to the antenna. This is to prevent on-air interference during the tuning process. I agree with Bill. Just make sure the frequency is not in use, and then tune up with full power by whistling into the mike. The disadvantage here is that your radio's tune function serves no purpose and without an swr meter in line, you have no indication that the tuner has successfully tuned. There is a wire however in the SGC-230 control cable that you can use to turn on a lamp or LED to give you an all tuned indication.

Eric

Last edited by fairbank56; 03-05-2010 at 06:58 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #75  
Old 03-05-2010
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 80
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
cruisingmom is on a distinguished road
Getting this ICOM to SG230 correct

Thank you Eric for responding.
So let me make sure I understand this so as not to error in setting up:

1) I should use two separate 12-14 AWG dual cables from the circuit breaker to the power molex connector on the ICOM so that all four power connectors are in use.

2) If I just use the power pins ( +/-) from the SG-230 to the M-700 the SG-230 will still tune and "remember" the frequencies, it will just disable the tune switch on the Icom. However:
a) If I attach the KEY and START pins from the ICOM to the RED-WHITE reset lock wire from the SG-230 I can use the tune Key on the front of the ICOM it just won't have fast response unless I put in line the capacitor and resistor.
b) I I attach only the power pins on the ICOM to the power leads of the SG-230, I can also attach the BLACK-WHITE wire from the SG-230 to an off line LED and it will light when the frequency is tuned (sort of acting like the light on the front of the M-700 called TUNE.
c) Finally - I am not sure I understand the blowing in the Mic recommendation. Are you saying that if I only connect the power cables between the SG and the ICOM I need to activate the SG by blowing in the mic even if I only want to receive and not transmit?

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my questions
Andy
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #76  
Old 03-05-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 1,807
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 9
btrayfors will become famous soon enough btrayfors will become famous soon enough
Andy,

If you go back and read my comments, and Eric's comments closely, most of your questions have been answered.

To simplify even further:

1. Connect the red wire on the SG-230 to a 12V plus source, using AWG18 or AWG 16 wire, and with a 1/2A fuse in line and a switch to turn the tuner on/off;

2. Connect the black wire to a 12VDC ground.

3. Run the coax (RG-8X or RG-213/214) between the radio and the tuner.

That's it. That's all you HAVE to do. Whistling into the mic on a clear frequency near the one you want to use will cause the tuner to tune.

If you want to use the tune lights, I'd buy the accessory SmartLock, and read all about it in the SG-230 manual.

A better solution, as I stated above, is to put a good Power/SWR meter in the coax line close to the radio. This will tell you all you need to know about the radio outputting power and the antenna system tuning. It is by far the best investment you can make. Much better than the "idiot lights" which, like those in a car, don't really tell you much at all.

Forget the Tune button on the M700. It's not required. I've had a bunch of M700's thru here, and in fact use one every day on the Nets. It's a very solid radio. Just ignore the tune button.

BTW, one of the nice things about the SG-230 tuner as compared to the Icom tuners is that it has lots of non-volatile memories. It doesn't "forget" the tune settings for any frequency you've previously used, unlike the Icom tuners which can only remember them for a short time.

One other thing: it's a very good idea to keep power leads as short as possible. If I were doing an install for you, I'd put a terminal strip very near the radio and run AWG6 wires from that strip directly to the house batteries, with a 30A fuse in both the positive and negative wires located close to the battery. Pulling power for a SSB set off the panel breakers is not a great idea, and tends to increase the potential for radio frequency interference (RFI) both from the radio to other onboard instruments, and from other onboard devices to the radio.

Bill

Last edited by btrayfors; 03-05-2010 at 08:31 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #77  
Old 03-05-2010
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 134
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 5
fairbank56 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by cruisingmom View Post
1) I should use two separate 12-14 AWG dual cables from the circuit breaker to the power molex connector on the ICOM so that all four power connectors are in use.
No. You only need a two conductor cable and size 12 is not adequate. The size cable you need depends primarily on how long the cable run is from battery to radio. Like Bill says, use #6 which is good up to 15 feet. You need this size because of voltage drop, not because of it's current handling capabilities. I also suggest running directly to the battery with in-line fuses. Place a heavy duty terminal board near the radio to connect the #6 wires and the wiring from the molex plug.

Quote:
2) If I just use the power pins ( +/-) from the SG-230 to the M-700 the SG-230 will still tune and "remember" the frequencies, it will just disable the tune switch on the Icom.
Correct

Quote:
a) If I attach the KEY and START pins from the ICOM to the RED-WHITE reset lock wire from the SG-230 I can use the tune Key on the front of the ICOM it just won't have fast response unless I put in line the capacitor and resistor.
No. You must use the capacitor/resistor but I don't recommend using this method at all. It's not worth me trying to explain how this all works but suffice it to say that your radio could give you a successful tune indication when in fact this is not the case.

Quote:
b) I I attach only the power pins on the ICOM to the power leads of the SG-230, I can also attach the BLACK-WHITE wire from the SG-230 to an off line LED and it will light when the frequency is tuned (sort of acting like the light on the front of the M-700 called TUNE.
Yes, this is what I recommend. You can use the +12v of the ICOM to not only power the tuner, but also to connect to one side of the LED with the black/white wire from tuner to the other side. If you do not use a "12 volt LED", then you must put a resistor of around 560 ohms in-line with the power lead to the LED. Here's my Icom M710 shop radio that uses an SEA tuner which is much like the SGC. Notice the red LED above and to the left of the swr meter. It will only come on if the tuner has successfully tuned giving you a clear indication that it has done so.



Quote:
c) Finally - I am not sure I understand the blowing in the Mic recommendation. Are you saying that if I only connect the power cables between the SG and the ICOM I need to activate the SG by blowing in the mic even if I only want to receive and not transmit?
Blowing into the mic is not sufficient, you must talk or whistle until the tuner is tuned. You will significantly improve your receive signal if you tune the tuner on the band you want to receive on. Generally, once tuned on a band, say 8Mhz, if you change frequencies within that band the tuner will not need to re-tune.

Eric

Last edited by fairbank56; 03-05-2010 at 12:03 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #78  
Old 03-05-2010
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 80
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 6
cruisingmom is on a distinguished road
Thank you Eric and Bill

Gentlemen

THANK YOU for your help - this was tremendous. I would have made several mistakes had I not asked for help and you guys had not chimed in.

Thank you again - I hope to hook everything up and test over the next couple of weeks.

All the best
Andy
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #79  
Old 03-05-2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
SVTalaris is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by btrayfors View Post
Re: the DC-DC converter you're using, the specs say this thing puts out 15VDC. This is a bit high; can you set it back to 13.2 or so? I've been using a W4RRY booster for one of my onboard SSBs for several years. Did some tests a couple of years ago and found it to be very suitable for my needs. Most others have found the same, though a couple of people have had troubles. There are more expensive, and presumably better, boosters/regulators on the market which will handle the 30A necessary for marine SSBs.
I'm not using the marine model. There is a 40 AMP "super booster" at tgelectronics. It allows output voltage adjustment. I did not get the W4RRY model because he no longer makes his 30 AMP version.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #80  
Old 03-07-2010
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
rgnewleaf is on a distinguished road
kenwood tkm 707

I purch boat with kenwood tkm-70z ssb. Put on a 17 foot whip. Barely received anything. Have been attaching copper foil to hull and attached foil to thru hulls and engine. Recption has improved but caribbean weather is garbled. Seems best at lower frequencies. Receiving ham contest some clear.what can I do from here. Am currently on Biscane Baym

Last edited by rgnewleaf; 03-07-2010 at 10:02 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
High-Frequency Radio Basics Kathy Barron Seamanship Articles 0 10-14-2000 08:00 PM
High-Frequency Radio Basics Kathy Barron Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 10-14-2000 08:00 PM
High-Frequency Radio Basics Kathy Barron Her Sailnet Articles 0 10-14-2000 08:00 PM
Choosing and Installing an SSB Radio Sue & Larry Gear and Maintenance Articles 0 09-28-2000 08:00 PM
Choosing and Installing an SSB Radio Sue & Larry Cruising Articles 0 09-28-2000 08:00 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:40 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012