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Tablet computer for Navigation

30K views 123 replies 33 participants last post by  manimaul 
#1 ·
Can anyone recommend a tablet computer for navigation? Here are my preliminary requirements:
- runs Windows (ie, compatible with OpenCPN)
- touch screen
- external mouse and keyboard option (when used for other applications)
- screen size >= 12 inch
- USB ports

Thanks.
Pete
 
#2 ·
Lenovo, and I'm sure others, sell a "convertible" tablet that has a keyboard base that swivels up and into the back of the touch screen. Kinda like have the best of both worlds. Most tablets in that category are running Windows 7. However, those tend to be on the higher end of the price scale. Any thoughts to using a "Netbook"? Much less expensive to be exposing to the salt air/water.
 
#7 ·
Thanks. Yes, I've thought of a netbook and you're certainly right about the cost. My thought was to get the tablet up onto the bulkhead of nav station and use it much like a very flexible chartplotter. At anchor I would be able to use a mouse and keyboat to convert it into a somewhat normal laptop. Alternatively, I could just carry a laptop for all other apps.
Pete
 
#3 ·
Viewsonic used to make a great 10 inch windoze tablet that you might get on ebay REAL cheap Pentium III though! heheh HowStuffWorks "Consumer Electronics Show 2004"

Otherwise, a standard windoze tablet might work. If money is no object we use the Dell XT2 tablets all the time. On Dell outlet they can be had cheap. They are 12.1 inch, can buy great "bump cases" for them, have USB ports, and VGA. probably ~800 on the outlet site.

Workflow XT2 Convertible Bump Case

We use these on our fork trucks at work, so they are pretty tough laptops (water? probably not great on them).
 
#4 ·
Would it still be a tablet with a screen size of 12in?

I had a Fujitsu Lifebook for years. I liked it, still have it. However, I just bought an Ipad and it makes the thing seem as primitive as a chalkboard. Forget OpenCPN. You can get a real navigation app for $25 with no chart and gps integration work at all. The Ipad also works great inside a waterproof case. OpenCPN, which I've used, is cool because its free. However, its free for a reason.

How about an anchor alarm app! ($2) Never had that on my tablet.
 
#9 ·
I'll second the recommendation of LINUX, pick a flavor. Unless you are a windoze god, the Linux system will be much more stable, and generally boot faster, with less hassle, and the updates can be done on your time (less likely someone will crash your machine with a virus). This being a purpose built machine, not really used as a web surfing tool or the like (could be, but won't be)... it will likely serve you better for your purpose.
 
#11 ·
Minnewaska;765222 However said:
Minnewaska... I too am an iPad fan. Not even sure people would be actually talking about "Tablets" if it wasn't for the last year or so of the iPad explosion. I've seen a couple other tablets... HP is one that comes to mind... that are tremendously slow and can't even load a webpage at a reasonable speed, much less run a Navigation app.

Might want to check out this application... iNavX™ - Marine Navigation App for iPhone and iPad

I have no affiliation with the company and honestly am so new to sailing that I can't "recommend" the software... but I did take a look at it and it seems to be fairly powerful.
 
#12 ·
Based largely upon feedback received, I would like to modify my requirements as follows:
- runs Windows or Ubuntu (ie, OpenCPN compatible)
- touch screen
- min 2 USB ports (for external mouse and keyboard)
- solid state drive (for reliability)
- screen size 10-12 inch
- low power consumption
- bootable USB capability (to install OS, etc)
- no fan or other moving parts
- price < $300 (used or new)

I'm imagining a very simple tablet type PC which would be dedicated to navigation. I would very much appreciate the names of candidate tablet PC to investigate.
Thanks.
Pete
 
#13 · (Edited)
We've used tablets for the last 8 years at work.. the Viewsonic I pointed him to, was a "slate tablet without a keyboard," manufactured almost 10 years ago now. Unlike the IPAD, it had firewire, vga, touch screen, and could run things called PROGRAMS... like I dunno.... Office.

I like the iPad, but like everything Apple, it isn't new, or innovative, it is just "pretty." By "pretty" I mean generally needlessly expensive.

With your critieria... you eliminate the ipad, unless you want to do bluetooth for your keyboard and mouse.

You are likely better off with a Netbook.. in that price range... just saying. 10 inch is all I remember seeing in a netbook (I don't think they made a 12 in any brand).

the no fan or moving parts? Hmmm. So you want a netbook with a solid state hard drive then... I think the criteria are too high for that price range new I bet, unless you are talking used. Have you tried www.geeks.com and looked for one?

PS: blast me all you want, I own an iphone4, replaced my droid2 with it. Have to say I miss my Droid.. but the iphone is better built.
 
#14 ·
We've used tablets for the last 8 years at work.. the Viewsonic I pointed him to, was a "slate tablet without a keyboard," manufactured almost 10 years ago now. Unlike the IPAD, it had firewire, vga, touch screen, and could run things called PROGRAMS... like I dunno.... Office.

I like the iPad, but like everything Apple, it isn't new, or innovative, it is just "pretty." By "pretty" I mean generally needlessly expensive.

With your critieria... you eliminate the ipad, unless you want to do bluetooth for your keyboard and mouse.

You are likely better off with a Netbook.. in that price range... just saying. 10 inch is all I remember seeing in a netbook (I don't think they made a 12 in any brand).

the no fan or moving parts? Hmmm. So you want a netbook with a solid state hard drive then... I think the criteria are too high for that price range new I bet, unless you are talking used. Have you tried Geeks.com - Computer parts, Laptop computers, Desktop computers, Computer hardware and looked for one?

PS: blast me all you want, I own an iphone4, replaced my droid2 with it. Have to say I miss my Droid.. but the iphone is better built.
Yes, the iPad does not meet my criteria. A netbook doesn't either based upon my desire to mount a tablet without keyboard on a bulkhead. Yes, I may very well end up buying used to meet my price point. It won't take very high performance for a dedicated tablet PC to run OpenCPN. I'm still trying to figure out how to determine which tablets might run Ubuntu. That would make a very robust dedicated nav computer.
Pete
 
#15 ·
I always love it when people post "criteria" for a new hardware device based on the pieces, parts, or other techno-useless-stats that it contains. I've always tried to define my "criteria" based on what I'm trying to accomplish. How I get there isn't as large a concern of mine as efficiency, usability and the ability to get the job done.

Henry Ford once said... "If I had asked my customers what they needed, they would have said 'A Faster Horse'"... I guess you know what you need more than I do... but I hope you honestly need an outdated firewire or usb port and aren't just including those because they sound Techno.

To the OP... The HP Touchpad should definitely be in your short list to look at. I think it will meet most of your criteria and should suit your needs well.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Sounds good although the article claims you must install Ubuntu alongside WebOS. Of course, if any are still available at $99 then one might make do! Looks like they're going for $250-300 on eBay. As an aside, I'd really like to find an article describing which tablets can accept Ubuntu.
Pete
 
#19 ·
The $99 deal came and went like a flash. I even heard of some who had placed orders on Amazon that got later cancelled by Amazon because they didn't have enough stock to fulfill the order at $99. Hardly makes sense, seeing that a few days later they had them listed at $299... but possibly these were from different suppliers, as I know Amazon does utilize various third party suppliers.

[APOLOGY FOR GETTING ON MY SOAPBOX/] Problem is for me... Ubuntu, Windows, Linux and most other OS's I've worked with have needed way too much hand-holding and tinkering to keep them running smoothly... and sometimes far from that. I've worked in an IT related field for 20 years, so I know how to keep systems running. But I want my system to work for me, not the other way around. That's why I drank the koolaid and switched to iOS (believe me, it was a struggle). It just works and for the most part, I haven't found anything I'm not able to do.

I switched from trying to get my Horse to go Faster... and got an iPad. Haven't regretted it. [/APOLOGY END]
 
#22 ·
Or just get a proper marine chartplotter of course. Personally I will never buy an Apple product, but that's just me. I don't buy into the whole Apple "thing". Not saying they are bad, I just don't like the company or the way it operates, and I don't like their restrictive practices. Saying they "just work" is merely a reflection of this, in the same way that an XBox, PS3 or a microwave "just works", that's what happens when a manufacturer controls every aspect of the hardware and software.
An alternative to a tablet (which is a fad that I think will disappear as fast as it appeared) would be to get a fanless computer and run whatever you like on it. I'm a big fan of Linux, you pay nothing for any software, and it doesn't actually need any tinkering at all. I have my laptop setup to download updates etc, but on a standalone machine you install it and forget it. It runs forever with no complaints. If I was actually looking to do something different, I would probably look at one of the small fanless PCs out there, you can even get fully solid-state and waterproof ones, plus an armoured touch-screen for it. Could function as chart plotter, entertainment station, whatever I fancy. Quite frankly though, I don't think I can be arsed. I download a course into my Garmin 72h and that's all I need. On our last trip I had the laptop all ready to go and never actually bothered switching it on.
 
#24 ·
I already have a Garmin 441s chartplotter which will be my backup. I favor a Ubuntu solution, but having trouble finding a list of tablet PCs which will accept Ubuntu. Based upon a bit of googling there are serious issues running Ubuntu on existing tablet computers although there is a tablet version of Ubuntu now under development. I prefer an integrated solution with processor, SSD, screen, etc in a single enclosure to maximize reliability, minimize cost, and conserve power.
Pete
 
#23 ·
I reckon Paul may be pissing into the wind re the tablet thing but I do thoroughly agree re his Garmin comment. We had a plotter on the old boat along with a Garmin and I didn't properly connect the thing until we started planning to sell her. Those little Garmins are fabulous. Even with all the bells and whistles we now have I'm still going to carry one.

We have charts that cover all of Australia and most of Oceania on CMap chips but for passage planning and serious international work I suspect we'll go notebook pc plus paper. Damn it all I like paper.

Paul .... I'm about to start a Linux thread ... you might like to jump into that.
 
#25 ·
Thing is though Pete, a tablet isn't more reliable, and there are no field serviceable parts so if something does go then you've lost the lot, at least with a PC type setup, if a video card or a power supply goes south, you can rip it out and replace it relatively easily. I did some searching on 12v powered fanless PCs and actually there are quite a few out there and at surprisingly low cost too.
With regards to running Ubuntu on a tablet, pick a flavour of tablet really. Certainly if you are looking at the Android/WebOS type devices, you can't install Ubuntu as you would on a computer, it just runs on top of the existing OS, if you have a Windoze based tablet then it's just a PC that happens to be in a small case and therefore I see no reason you couldn't install the OS properly. As far as I know there isn't a "list" as such, you have to do some legwork with Google and look for specific tablets to see what people have done with them, or read through endless forums and try to follow multipage discussions with search engines that seemingly return everything except what you're looking for (sound familiar? :D )
 
#28 · (Edited)
Thanks. I can't consider a desktop given the power consumption. Basically, I'm trying to create an inexpensive chartplotter. If by chance it fails, I'll make do with my Garmin 441s. It's adequate, but the small screen is a limitation and I don't want to invest the big bucks to buy a chartplotter with a large screen. I do like the idea of a fanless, low power computer, but the problem is finding the low power display and figuring how to deal with keyboard and mouse. The whole idea of the tablet is to eliminate keyboard and mouse and free up the horizontal surface. Currently I use a Dell laptop to run OpenCPN. The Dell does a fine job of running OpenCPN, but I'd rather free up the horizontal space and mount something on the bulkhead out of harms way. The laptop would be used at anchor for traditional laptop kind of things eg, email, browsing, etc. I have started the googling you speak of and as you say, the returns cover the gambit. The closest tablet I've found so far is a used Motion Computing LE1600 (http://www.motioncomputing.com/resources/LE_spec_US_web.pdf) which can be had for < $250 and runs Windows XP (or Ubuntu). A really intriguing possibility for <$300 is the new HP Touchpad. Hackers have figured out how to install Ubuntu in a separate partition alongside webOS. In the new arena with no hacking required, the Acer ICONIA Tab W500 is nice, but costs about $500 and has many features that are overkill for this application.

As an aside, I favor open source software. This is one of the reasons why, all things being equal, I prefer Ubuntu and OpenCPN. That combination would be truly awesome.
Pete
 
#26 ·
By the way, for the record... I was trying to answer his question for hardware.

What I use (FWIW) is an iphone with Navionics... $10. Wife thinks my best route forward is an ipad in a bump case mounted on an arm and permanently installed in the boat.

I don't have a Depth Sounder, OR a Knot meter.. but then, I only sail on an inland lake right now. I use the navionics for navigating at night mostly.

I agree with the assessment though, that once you are spending $400 or more, getting a proper chart plotter is a WAY more reliable way forward.

CRED: IT Manager/Network admin for 12 years. Was a Telecom/Datacom engineer for 4. BSEE by education, and my first IT consulting job at age 13, 27 years ago. My sailing experience is nearly as old, started at age 8. However, I mostly have only crewed on larger boats 19, 27, 23, 34. I have only owned a 14 capri and a 22 capri.

I am an OS independent. I use what runs what I need it to.

I apologize too for any soapbox diatribe, Ive made.

If this is intended "play project" then I am anxious to hear what you do wind up with. Yes the Touchpad sold at many stores and online for $99 2 days ago. WebOS was the most recent generation of Linux (gasp) first developed by PALM. webOS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
#29 ·
You know, it's the price limit that's affecting you most. It sounds like you need a convertible tablet/pc, but I don't think they've been out long enough to find a used one for under $300. I know that Lenovo makes a new one for around $1100.00, and I think it's only been out for a year. It might be time to think about increasing your budget.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Thanks. Basically, I'm looking for a tablet that in the router world is the equivalent of the Linksys wrt54g. That router is now very old, but has a life of its own due to the availability of free 3rd parties firmware with features only available in $600 routers (http://lifehacker.com/software/top/hack-attack-turn-your-60-router-into-a-600-router-178132.php)! As mentioned elsewhere, the performance requirements of this application are not demanding and many of the features being offered in new tablets are gross overkill for this application since I would dedicate the tablet to navigation.
Pete
 
#32 ·
One thing that confuses me (still) is the interface with OpenCPN if one was to install, for example, Ubuntu. These tablets use special pens which would seem to require special drivers. Who's to say that these drivers exist within Ubuntu for any given tablet? If they don't exist then I'm not sure how one can interface to OpenCPN since I plan to operate the tablet without a keyboard or mouse. I've been operating under the assumption that any tablet which is available with Windows can accept Ubuntu, but that's not to say the drivers exist to operate as a standalone tablet. Comments appreciated.
Pete
 
#33 ·
Get a netbook and a flat screen monitor. Cut the brick off the monitor and run it straight 12 volt. Now you have two screens and you're still cheaper than an iPad. As far as energy consumption, you only use the bulkhead screen when needed, and you may find you use it more for showing movies than for running a virgin airlines-style "you are here' bulkhead display.
 
#34 · (Edited)
Thanks. Actually, that would move us in the opposite direction from where we want to go. We already have a very capable laptop for doing anything not related to navigation. We want to free up the horizontal space of nav station, eliminate keyboard and mouse, and use the bulkhead-mounted tablet running OpenCPN for dedicated navigation.

An interesting alternative would be to combine a low power, standalone computer with a touchscreen monitor. The computer could be located out of site somewhere. I already have a standalone computer which I'm not using (http://www.zotacusa.com/specsheet/MAGHD-ND01-U.pdf). I would just need to add the touchscreen monitor to make an extremely flexible and powerful dedicated navigation system. I'll have to compare the power consumption to see if this alternative is viable.
Pete
 
#36 ·
Are they ones with real GPS, or the pseudo-GPS that relies on you having a cell connection?
Anyway, if you're interested in looking at a computer box type solution, have a peek through this site, lots of little boxes designed for car use, so 12v, I see no reason they wouldn't work just fine in a relatively dry place in a boat.
Mini-Box.com: mini-ITX, nano-ITX, pico-ITX, mobile-ITX solutions
 
#37 ·
Anyway, if you're interested in looking at a computer box type solution, have a peek through this site, lots of little boxes designed for car use, so 12v, I see no reason they wouldn't work just fine in a relatively dry place in a boat.
Mini-Box.com: mini-ITX, nano-ITX, pico-ITX, mobile-ITX solutions
Yes, they would work quite well I imagine, but since I already have something similar that I'm not using, that would be the path of least resistance. I've found several different brand-new 12" touchscreen monitors on eBay in the <$200 so that would be the total cost. I have discovered that my standalone computer draws about 35 Watts and some of the monitors draw less than 15 so the total power consumption would be in the range of 50 Watts. That is very similar to the two tablet PCs I've been investigating. I've installed a dual boot system on this computer with both Ubuntu and Windows XP. Since not all touchscreen monitors come with drivers for Ubuntu (Linux) it might limit me to Windows.

This now seems the best approach because I'm taking advantage of what I already have and it will have considerably more flexibility and capability than the used tablets PCs I've considered. I still need to select a suitable touchscreen monitor. The reasonably priced ones on eBay don't list make or model so not sure what kind of reliability or guarantee they would have?
Pete
 
#41 ·
Thanks for all the great feedback. I notice that in many cases the responders ignore my original requirements. I don't mind because it's fun to see the diverse ways people choose to solve their problems. For those that are confused, I will repeat that I'm trying to create a bulkhead mounted DIY chartplotter at a fraction of the cost of what an equivalent sized 12" chartplotter would cost. Like a chartplotter there will be no keyboard or mouse. The resulting chartplotter will be more powerful and more flexible than a store-bought chartplotter. I have used OpenCPN and like it very much, therefore, it will be the software the chartplotter runs. I wish to free up the horizontal space of my nav station for the following reasons:
1. space for charts
2. space for guide books
3. space for log book

The laptop will be stored out of the way in a safe place while under way. It will be retrieved at anchor to do things that laptop are designed to do. Hopefully, this all helps explains the reasons behind my requirements. Please feel free to agree or disagree.
Pete
 
#42 ·
..... notice that in many cases the responders ignore my original requirements. I don't mind because it's fun to see the diverse ways people choose to solve their problems......
We're just trying to keep other from making the same mistake. :)

I've gone your route, without the unnecessary customized operating system. It's a real Rube Goldberg machine when your done. I've tried both, doesn't sound like you have. I wish you well with it, if your mind is set on it.
 
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