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Self Tailing Winches

8K views 30 replies 20 participants last post by  arf145 
#1 ·
I sail an Endeavour 32 with Barlow 24 2 speed non Self Tailing winches. I have a chance to buy Lewmar 30st winches for what I think is a good price. I have never had self tailers. Do you think it would be worth it to upgrade? and do you think the Lewmar 30st would be big enough?
 
#2 ·
Self tailing winches are amazing. That is all.

That is not all. It is so nice to be able to make micro-adjustments to your sails with one hand. Laziness? Perhaps. But isn't well-engineered laziness the unspoken goal of the serious sailor?

One of our self-tailers went on the fritz last month and we had to use its non-tailing brother for a while. We got a taste for how the other half lives (self-tailers are one of our few luxuries), and it was like rubbing your belly while patting your head. I don't know how you do it. Come into the light!
 
#3 ·
A couple of useful links below for specs and comparisons... If short handed and not racing ST winches are great.. I wouldn't choose ST if a lot of round the cans racing is involved.. A grinder and tailer is much faster and non ST winches cleaner to work with.

Winch Comparisons

http://l-36.com/winches.php
 
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#6 ·
I have those ST30s on the Cal 29 and while there GREAT there just enough on the 29


On the boats i race on the the ST is not a problem as we have a tailer and grinder BUT it allows one person to trim after the hard part is done and lock it much master if we need a big hike
 
#7 · (Edited)
The old numbers are not the same as the newer numbers for winch sizes. A Barlow 24 is about the same size as a Lewmar 44. a Lewmar 30 is a lot to small for a genny on a 32' boat. check the drum size. the Barlow 24 is a 3 5/8" drum and the lewmar 30 is a 2 5/16" .
 
#10 ·
I upgraded to Andersen 40ST primaries last year, and I consider it money well spent! Once you have tried self tailing, there is no going back. I have raced on plenty of boats that run STs as well, and they work just fine. Not only do they allow for a trimmer to grind without someone tailing, but later adjustments are done quickly with one hand! Far better than old school non-st winches! Some complain that the stripper gets in the way on the release, but that is simply a case of adapting your technique to the new hardware.

You definitely won't want to go smaller than 40 for a boat your size.
 
#11 ·
I would agree that 30s are way too small for a 32 foot boat. I have Lewmar 42s on my 30 footer and they are too small. The 30s on the cabin top a barely big enough. However it should not be based strictly on the boat lenght, if you go to the Lewmar site of who ever they list winches based on sail size since obviously racing boats carry bigger sails relative to their length.
 
#13 ·
Asdf38, I'd like to know, too.

My Bristol 29.9 came with Lewmar 30 non-self-tailers, chromed bronze winches with a good bit of the chrome worn off. I added Winchers and they do a pretty good job, but it takes a hard pull to set my 3/8" jib sheets into them. So far, it's been all too easy for my cheap-ass Scotsman genes to take over from my "oh I'd like some new stuff" yearnings.

However, I just sold the boat I'd sailed before the Bristol, and I could readily and easily persuade myself to put some of the proceeds into the 'new' boat. Since I've got the new sails, and a "stack-pack" cover/catcher for the mains'l, new winches are a temptation; and a pair of new Lewmar Evo 30ST's are within reach - even at $900 each.

Question - are they $1750 more convenient than Winchers?
 
#14 · (Edited)
I put these on my boat...are they worth the $1800 I paid for the pair? Absolutely! They allow my wife to grind the sail in with two hands, and I don't have to tail! And they look good too!



I had winchers on my old winches; they were ok but really no substitute for proper self tailers. They are better than nothing I guess.
 
#15 ·
No question if I was re-winching it would be Andersens.
 
#16 ·
But I don't get why they're so expensive?
Because the sailboat market is small and they don't make enough for the economies of scale to lower the price and because it's for a boat.

are they $1750 more convenient than Winchers?
I think so. IMO, the difference between a Wincher and an ST winch is the difference between a Yugo and a BMW. They both get the job done, but one does it with a lot less drama.
 
#22 ·
I'd also suggest buying used. I picked up a really nice Lewmar 40ST on eBay for $400. It's going to replace my Lewmar 30ST mainsheet winch which will replace my Lewmar 30 non-selftailing main halyard winch.

A winch is virtually indestructible, so used is very viable.
 
#23 ·
No question if I was re-winching it would be Andersens.
Beautiful winches, no doubt.
Recently while sailing with friends they mentioned they needed to rebuild their LM's but were a little apprehensive about disassembly. So I took one apart quickly with my bare hands to show them the main assemblies. There's a special place in my heart for that kind of engineering design.:)
 
#24 ·
For those who say ST winches are slow for racing, I suggest you use the ST head only when cleating off. Lots of people also don't know how to use an ST winch; they put the line over the tailer before pulling the slack up. use the line over the drum only when sheeting the slack; then put it over the ST and trim the sail. It's much faster and reduces wear on the tailer. Also make sure there are at least 3 wraps on the drum because the finger on the tailer can get broken off with too much load on it.

As for the cost; well it's the difference between having to struggle to grind with one hand and tail with the other, or just grinding the winch. much easier so the price of the new units and resale value of the older ones reflect that.
 
#26 ·
Yes used is an option, but winches certainly are NOT indestructible if they are not maintained. I wouldn't buy a used winch without taking it apart and inspecting it very closely. Pawl sockets get worn and sloppy, teeth get worn and damaged, bearings wear. People replace winches for a reason!
 
#27 ·
Does anyone know how to get the self trailer off a variety winch? I see two openings with rounded brass (no place to place screwdriver or Allen wrench). I was told to pry of the top but the rim is to narrow to get a screwdriver blade under. Btw, I am a bit of an idiot mechanically, but was able to take apart the non self tailers and put them back together. Thanks!
 
#28 ·
Ok, my boat is MUCH smaller than your folks at 25 feet.
I've considered ST winches for it... I solo sail a lot (even race solo some times)...
I cross sheet even as the winds come up so that I can just grab the sheet, sweat it, and take up the slack. Because of this though my elbow is a mess, but that's another story.

The statement that you need 3 wraps to use the ST function bothers me... I am assuming I can continue to use them as I describe (without the ST function)... but if I want more on them and wanna spare my elbow, I'd need to wrap the leeward side 3 times?

This is my typical "cross sheeting" in action. From the helmsman position, I lean back and pull in the center. Obviously none of this was necessary during THIS sail (6mph winds)... but I've used it successfully solo sailing to 25 knots with the 155 up.
 
#30 ·
The number of wraps really depends on the winch, the type of rope, and the amount of load, but I am not clear on how more wraps is a problem for your elbow! There is no reason you couldn't use self tailers when you cross sheet. You could just put one or two wraps on the leeward winch, haul as much sheet as you can by hand, then put a couple of wraps on the windward winch and tailer, and then you are free to grind with one hand and steer with the other.

If you have an issue with strain on your elbow, the best remedy would probably be to upgrade to more powerful winches.
 
#29 ·
What is a variety winch?

When people talk about prying off the top of a winch what they are referring to is the retaining ring that goes around the center drive hub. Once you take that ring off, the top plate comes off and usually the drum lifts off. (that is typical on standard non-ST winches) That being said, not all winches work that way. It helps to know the make and model of winch, and perhaps even post a pic.
 
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