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View Poll Results: Do you have a liferaft?
YES - For mostly bluewater sailing 11 22.92%
YES - For mostly coastal sailing 10 20.83%
NO - For mostly bluewater sailing 3 6.25%
NO - For mostly coastal sailing 19 39.58%
Considering gettting one 5 10.42%
Voters: 48. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 07-18-2013
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Re: How Many Have a Liferaft?

Would it be safe to guess that the boat sank from lack of maintenance? or lack of knowledge of boat ie poor seamanship? All sea cocks should be closed at sea hence the term sea **** so the only realistic place water would be coming in is from stuffing box, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out, does it? I wasn't there none of us were, still my point is it could have been avoided with a little prudence. My guess is that if the boat wasn't insured and there was no life raft it would still be floating.
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Old 07-18-2013
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Re: How Many Have a Liferaft?

very good discussion and well-reasoned alternative here:

Seamanship FAQ.
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  #13  
Old 07-18-2013
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Re: How Many Have a Liferaft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by barefootnavigator View Post
Would it be safe to guess that the boat sank from lack of maintenance? or lack of knowledge of boat ie poor seamanship? All sea cocks should be closed at sea hence the term sea **** so the only realistic place water would be coming in is from stuffing box, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out, does it? I wasn't there none of us were, still my point is it could have been avoided with a little prudence. My guess is that if the boat wasn't insured and there was no life raft it would still be floating.
Engine intake would also be a good one to be open but I am no rocket scientist. You do not mention engine running but I took it that is what you meant as a normally maintained stuffing box should not be leaking unless the engine is running and in gear.

How about a rudder post? How about any given transducer that is installed in the hull, especially the speed which is likely removable?
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  #14  
Old 07-18-2013
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Re: How Many Have a Liferaft?

Engine intake? so they could cheat on a 200 mile race course? again through hull failure is a lack of maintenance ie lack of seamanship. As far as the rudder shaft a good friend of mine lost his in last years Cabo race, they fixed it and continued on 12 hours later to a great performance. He is half way to Hawaii at this moment in the Trans Pac and on the same boat, the one that would have sank if they followed their first instinct which was to abandon ship.

Tominny, thanks for the great link

Last edited by barefootnavigator; 07-18-2013 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 07-18-2013
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Re: How Many Have a Liferaft?

My sailing on my own boat is a mix of coastal and offshore, often in the off-season or in cold waters. I have a Winslow packed inside a Pelican case stowed in the cockpit. The case could serve as a very useful watertight backup to an already packed ditch bag... Have a dry suit, as well...



If I had the time, and the conditions allowed, my inflatable tender would definitely be coming with me, as well... it's stowed on the foredeck, always with the foot pump and other gear necessary to render it usable in an emergency...

For anyone thinking about liferafts - and Offshore Safety in general - I think Beth & Evans' approach is an extremely worthwhile read... One may not endorse their final choices, but their focus on 'seamanship' over 'gear' is a mindset far too few sailors appear to have today, in my view...

Go to Seamanship FAQ. and click on #30...
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Re: How Many Have a Liferaft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by barefootnavigator View Post
Would it be safe to guess that the boat sank from lack of maintenance? or lack of knowledge of boat ie poor seamanship? All sea cocks should be closed at sea hence the term sea **** so the only realistic place water would be coming in is from stuffing box, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out, does it? I wasn't there none of us were, still my point is it could have been avoided with a little prudence. My guess is that if the boat wasn't insured and there was no life raft it would still be floating.
I'd want to know a bit more about the actual event, before making such assertions...

Quote:

Scott McWilliams
Below is a link to a slide show my son put on the web.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BzEW...it?usp=sharing.

Liela B was in great shape. The thru hulls and diesel were replaced in 2012. she was restored. We sailed her to the Bahamas last summer through tropical squalls and no problem. We were taking her to Mexico next month. I did all the basic repairs myself and knew every inch of the boat. A race crew of 5 very experienced sailors, ex navy, sail makers, master 50 sail, past commodore. 20 year live aboard. We started the yanmar and it stalled immediately. We looked and there was debris under the boat. We dove the boat and there was a line wrapped gently around the shaft. It was removed by uncoiling like a winch. It did not need to be cut. We started the engine again and it ran smoothly. We noticed water in the bilge, checked the bilge pumps and they were working. Put a man on the whale gulper and a lift pump. Shut off the thru hulls. All seemed solid. In 15 minutes the boat was half full of water and it was unsafe below. We rigged the dink took the epurb, outboard vhf gps flares etc and abandoned ship. None of us who were there could find the leak. None of you can either. Know that a well maintained bluewater vessel with an experienced chew can sink from unknown causes in 30 minutes and be prepared for that. The best guess of the cost guard, marine surveyor for the ins co and the crew is that the entire can where the shaft exits the keel ripped out and the shaft became off balance and ripped a giant hole under the engine (v drive).

PHOTO: When that sinking feeling is real - Scuttlebutt Sailing News


While it will never be known whether either was relevant to this event, such a scenario touches upon 2 features I would never want in a boat: a V-drive, or a hull liner/pan, common on so many of today's production boats...
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Last edited by JonEisberg; 07-18-2013 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 07-18-2013
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Re: How Many Have a Liferaft?

Quote:
Originally Posted by barefootnavigator View Post
Would it be safe to guess that the boat sank from lack of maintenance? or lack of knowledge of boat ie poor seamanship? All sea cocks should be closed at sea hence the term sea **** so the only realistic place water would be coming in is from stuffing box, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out, does it? I wasn't there none of us were, still my point is it could have been avoided with a little prudence. My guess is that if the boat wasn't insured and there was no life raft it would still be floating.
You seem to be stuck on the "why" of an event. In the event, the "whys and woulda, coulda, shoulda's" are irrelevant. It is the "if" one is preparing for. Or not.

Recently MarkJ began a thread on a multi-million dollar yacht that burned to the waterline, fortunately, while at anchor, shortly after a transatlantic passage. No one is certain of the cause, although electrics are suspected. Fortunately, all were able to abandon ship without injuries to other than their dignity and wardrobes (and the wallet of the owner). Had that fire erupted a few daze earlier, they'd have been far at sea and likely in shoot city absent a raft. Similarly, a few years ago some friends of ours returning from Isla Mujeres "hit something" in the night and promptly lost their rudder. Only very fast action saved the boat and it was very touch-and-go for several days at that.

The why's and woulda, coulda, shoulda's of an event are irrelevant to any but Monday Morning Quarterbacks and condescending self anointed "experts" although the after-action lesson's learned for avoidance/prevention are no doubt of value. Never-the-less, it is the If's that need be prepared for. The Why's are merely fodder for bar-side debate.

N'any case one can choose to prepare or choose not to. Different ships, Different Long Splices, eh?
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  #18  
Old 07-18-2013
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Re: How Many Have a Liferaft?

Ok line around the propeller shaft was it from their boat? seamanship again. They weren't saved by a life raft. Thank you though for share a much more accurate account, like I have previously said a wasn't there. I have just scratched Tartan's off my list of sea worthy boats. How long did it take to inflate the raft when they could have been plugging a leak in the boat.
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Old 07-18-2013
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Re: How Many Have a Liferaft?

You just contradicted your self did you do that as a joke? More proof that you cant buy safety.
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Old 07-18-2013
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Re: How Many Have a Liferaft?

I'd like to keep it stored in my cockpit hatches ... because it woudl be easy to access, but I fear that it would get too hot in there. Otherwise, I'd put it on one of the shelves/lockers mid-ships. It seems like the heat it would suffer in the cockpit locker would not be good for its longevity.

By the way, I assume that our boat can sink at any moment. I do not rule out a whale swimming up the Chesapeake and leaping on top of us. Our boat is 34 years old. Even with a lot of due dilligence I think that anything can happen ... particularly with through-hulls, shafts etc.
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