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Flying a Symmetrical Like an Asymmetrical

6K views 25 replies 13 participants last post by  MastUndSchotbruch 
#1 ·
Hey Folks,

I've just been given a fairly suitably sized symmetrical spinnaker for my boat. I don't have a pole or any hardware for flying a symmetrical right, and I'm rocking a pretty draconian budget, so I'm working on VERY little disposable cash (yeah, yeah, get rid of the boat :p)

Anyway, I whipped up a jury rig last night to fly the symmetrical like an asym, basically tying one clew to a bow cleat, and sheeting the other end. It worked out surprisingly well, and I'm pretty sure my boat's never gone faster. Sure, there was a mess of curl at the luff, but there was a LOT of square footage filled up.

So now, with that successful experiment out of the way, I'm considering rigging this in a *slightly* more legitimate manner, and I was wondering if there is any kind of information about this practice, or if I'm just completely bugnuts. I mean, it seems kind of daft to fly an symmetrical like this, but man, I can't argue with the results.

Any tips? References? Guides?
 
#4 ·
Huh. So people *do* fly spinnakers like that...crazy.

I suppose a few feet of downhaul and a quick-release shackle would do me just as fine, since I don't have a roller furler. That would get the head closer to the masthead, and the foot up above the pulpit.
 
#6 · (Edited)
Yup, I've done it a few times. I have the ATN Tacker. In light air you will move along pretty well.

You might even get up past a beam reach and start to point a bit. The thing is very light will create some lift to get you going when a 135% made of heavier material might just hang there.

If you are racing or have other jib options, no, it's not gonna work well.

If you need to leave the smaller working jib on the furler and just want to tool along in light air then... Sail on!

Some sort of "tacker" and a snatch block attached to something sturdy on the bow for a downhaul might be the way to go. Probably better than knotting it to the pulpit.

ATN has a video

One more thing... If you are short handed with a chute up, remember that just about the time it starts getting really fun is the time you start thinking about how to get it down :)
 
#7 ·
Hey Folks,

I've just been given a fairly suitably sized symmetrical spinnaker for my boat. I don't have a pole or any hardware for flying a symmetrical right, and I'm rocking a pretty draconian budget, so I'm working on VERY little disposable cash (yeah, yeah, get rid of the boat :p)

Anyway, I whipped up a jury rig last night to fly the symmetrical like an asym, basically tying one clew to a bow cleat, and sheeting the other end. It worked out surprisingly well, and I'm pretty sure my boat's never gone faster. Sure, there was a mess of curl at the luff, but there was a LOT of square footage filled up.

So now, with that successful experiment out of the way, I'm considering rigging this in a *slightly* more legitimate manner, and I was wondering if there is any kind of information about this practice, or if I'm just completely bugnuts. I mean, it seems kind of daft to fly an symmetrical like this, but man, I can't argue with the results.

Any tips? References? Guides?
You will not be able to sail as close to the wind with a symmetric rigged as an asymmetrical but it will work quite nicely, particularly with a sock to make launching and recovery easier. For more information see Asymmetrical Spinnaker Trim.
 
#15 ·
I've seen this article before and I'm always convinced I'm missing something obvious. It appears that gybing with this setup will result in the downhaul twisting around the furled genoa. Since the lazy sheet has been run outside the forestay/furler, the kite will be gybed on the outside. As a result, the downhaul, which is rigged aft of the genoa, will twist around the furler and I'd imagine this would interfere with the ability to adjust the downhaul. What am I missing?



 
#8 ·
Thanks for the advice and the links, guys. Quick clarification: I had the tack tied down to a bow cleat, not the pulpit. I may be daft, but I'm not THAT daft.

As of right now, my headsail inventory is a busted old 100% hanking jib and this chute. I'm the slowest boat in B-Fleet by like, an hour, so we're pretty much just screwing around anyway.

I've got some ideas for how I can improve this rig for fairly low-bucks. Thanks for the ideas, guys :D
 
#10 ·
Thanks for the advice and the links, guys. Quick clarification: I had the tack tied down to a bow cleat, not the pulpit. I may be daft, but I'm not THAT daft.

As of right now, my headsail inventory is a busted old 100% hanking jib and this chute. I'm the slowest boat in B-Fleet by like, an hour, so we're pretty much just screwing around anyway.

I've got some ideas for how I can improve this rig for fairly low-bucks. Thanks for the ideas, guys :D
Check out (click on) Atlantic Sail Traders, you may be able to find some worth while sails at a good price.
 
#11 ·
Okay, another question!

Someone suggested that I might consider rigging another halyard for the chute, but my masthead is super-simple. Only has four sheaves: two for the main and two for the jib. Looks exactly like this:


So, there's that stainless D on the forward part of the masthead. Do you think I could attach another block there and hoist the chute from there, or am I just begging to tear half of my masthead away doing that? I've no idea what that loop is there for.
 
#17 ·
Hey Folks,

I've just been given a fairly suitably sized symmetrical spinnaker for my boat. I don't have a pole or any hardware for flying a symmetrical right, and I'm rocking a pretty draconian budget, so I'm working on VERY little disposable cash (yeah, yeah, get rid of the boat :p)

Anyway, I whipped up a jury rig last night to fly the symmetrical like an asym, basically tying one clew to a bow cleat, and sheeting the other end. It worked out surprisingly well, and I'm pretty sure my boat's never gone faster. Sure, there was a mess of curl at the luff, but there was a LOT of square footage filled up.

So now, with that successful experiment out of the way, I'm considering rigging this in a *slightly* more legitimate manner, and I was wondering if there is any kind of information about this practice, or if I'm just completely bugnuts. I mean, it seems kind of daft to fly an symmetrical like this, but man, I can't argue with the results.

Any tips? References? Guides?
Glad it worked for you.

But why not just fly it as a symmetrical spi, just without the boom? Even though I have a spi boom with all its paraphernalia, I do this some times to avoid the complexity of the boom. You won't be pointing very high but if you are running or on a broad reach, it will sure speed you up!
 
#18 ·
I think that the above graphic is from a Sail Magazine article from a few years ago. IMHO the art department got it a little bit wrong in the first graphic. The turning block should be in front of the head stay and not behind. The second graphic shows the lazy sheet going in front of the head stay as it should. If you rigged your boat this way, the spinnaker halyard would chafe against the headstay after gybing and with the halyard wrapped, it would be very difficult in dousing the sail after a run.
 
#19 ·
I suspect the illustration was simply generic to illustrate the use of the parrel bead collar around the headstay and the adjustable tack height. On our boat we rig the stemhead turning block from the lazy anchor roller, ahead of the stay. Note, however, that, unlike an asymmetric it would be very difficult to effect a gybe with a full symmetric. Doable, but very difficult.
 
#20 ·
If I might, he has a hank on jib, the TAN might get trashed sliding up and down a bare forestay...

an EASIER solution (and cheaper)... would be to get s block forward and run a tackline back to the cockpit... as he gets closer to DDW, he can ease the tack, blowing it forward some, and sheet the heck out of it as he gets closer abeam.

Something like this would work (just put it low on the pulpit, but forward https://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1329 )... You aren't planning on running this in 20+ true anyway.

Oh and someone converted the symmetrical to asym on my 22... they actually put a hank about 10 inches up from one clew along with a tackline lead back to the cockpit... worked well, from almost beam to deep broad reach... Faster than the 155 racing genoa up until almost beam. This wasn't my idea, it was the prior owners, I just USED it!


it worked OK...
 
#21 ·
If I might, he has a hank on jib, the TAN might get trashed sliding up and down a bare forestay...
I presume you meant "ATN" above (as in an ATN Tacker) and you are exactly correct. With naught but a bare headstay, the parrel beads are replaced with a short length of double layered of webbing, sewed together, with grommets on each end.
 
#25 ·
I've flown a Sym. chute on a Hunter 38 with no pole. We rigged up a strop (length of line with an eye splice at each end) around the anchor roller with the jaw of a large snap shackle pinning the ends of the strop into a longish loop (3'?). The tack of the chute was held by the snap shackle. We used sheets twice the length of the boat so we could gybe the chute by streaming it ahead of the headstay and turning it inside out.

It worked pretty well and cost next to nothing - $400 for a decent used chute, $200 for the lines and shackles.

Easy to fly and lots of fun for small $$. We could get surprisingly high with the rig but couldn't sail very deep because of the big main on the Hunter.

The friend who owns the boat said he's seen 10 knots on the speedo flying it like that in a breeze.
 
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