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post #41 of 63 Old 09-13-2013
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Re: Fiberglass ..classic??

While there's no arguing the PRICE difference of old/classic vs new, in some cases you really need to wonder at the VALUE difference.
I go to boat shows and dealers looking at many of the new boats.. and I see wasted space, lack of storage, Ikea like decor and furnishings, and I've rarely said - Wow.. this is a boat I'd rather have....

So to replace my 30 yr old fiberglass (maybe not yet 'classic') with new I'd have to spend 8 - 10 times what I could sell her for... would the gains justify that outlay?? I think not.

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
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post #42 of 63 Old 09-13-2013
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Re: Fiberglass ..classic??

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Originally Posted by jamesjle View Post
Thankyou all for your replies. The why is interesting and perhaps important.

Right this moment I am moored in one of the great harbor's of the world, the sun has gone down, dinner perfect, NZ close to rolling Team USA and the boat restoration is finished to level one, level two starts on Monday.

The perfect moment, for us, two people, is perfect trim, best speed etc on a racing deck that has done several Fastnet's with a crew of 8. We all have our own peculiar wish list's. Today got close.

So a fiberglass restoration will not last, we know it will fail completely in due course. Thus is a glass boat lovingly nurtured a metaphor for life, you do your best then die. A Fife on the other hand is god like, immortal, as long as the funding is endless.

PS. This evenings wine is excellent
That Fife that "goes on forever" is not reality. Reality is that it has been replaced by a new boat several times but because it was done piecemeal it is regarded as the same boat.

A fiberglass boat with a couple of new hulls, several new rigs and a couple of new decks over the course of a century could be just as much regarded as "going on forever".

Just remember to retain that main beam with the reg. numbers.

In both cases it's Abe Lincoln's axe.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #43 of 63 Old 09-13-2013
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Re: Fiberglass ..classic??

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The Magazine "Classic Boat" just asked several professionals about what makes a boat a Classic. The responses were so varied and numerous, they had to expand it to two separate months.

Some were very open minded. Like Mr. Ed Burnett:

While another, Mrs Elizabeth Meyer are very closed minded about what makes a boat a classic. She would snub 90% of the classics out there with her mindset:
Elizabeth Meyer is East Coast Old Money - what else would you expect from her than arcane pretension and snobbery? Her definition of classic is restricted to exactly and only what she has done.

Burnett has it right - it's a rolling concept, not an instant in time. To exclude a boat like Kialoa III or Ganbare means your definition is nonsense.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #44 of 63 Old 09-13-2013
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Re: Fiberglass ..classic??

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That's very true and one of the nice things about old boats, as long as you don't expect to get back what you put into it if you ever decide to sell.
Would you expect to get back what you spent on a new boat? You lose about 20% the minute you leave the dock for the first time.
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I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #45 of 63 Old 09-13-2013
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Re: Fiberglass ..classic??

About love, not money. In addition to boats I have an affinity for old cars. Mostly Lincolns and Mercurys from the sixties. The convertibles from this era are worth buying and restoring. Anything with a metal roof is usually not worth the cost to restore. Recently cruising around not far from home I saw a 61 Lincoln 4 door sedan for sale. They wanted 10k for it. The problem is it needs a 20 to 30k total resto to make it into something. While it runs starts drives it's not even in daily driver condition today. Probably close to 10k just to get it there. Even if this car was given away for free, financially it's a loser. On it's best day restored to number 2 condition its a $15k car. The conv version could be a 100k car, and a solid 2, 61 conv could easily bring 40 to 50k. But not so for the sedan.

So just like old boats, bringing back these old cars , it's about love, not money.

Last edited by TJC45; 09-13-2013 at 07:04 PM.
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post #46 of 63 Old 09-13-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Fiberglass ..classic??

Thankyou for all the input. I think Nicklaus nailed it, a thing of beauty is worth
preserving whatever it is and however made.
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Re: Fiberglass ..classic??

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Originally Posted by Michael K View Post
James,

Without pictures of your rehabilitated boat, as far as we can tell you haven't done squat! That's right - without pictures it never happened. So you go right ahead, moan and groan all you want, but until we see pictures you are just another troll to us.

But if we can see something, maybe you will then get a couple of "oohs and ahhs" and know that it was really worth it after all. You could also actually use the boat a bit and realize for yourself a little pay off for all the hard work and expense.
Have put up rehabilitation album for Michael K
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post #48 of 63 Old 09-17-2013
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Re: Fiberglass ..classic??

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That Fife that "goes on forever" is not reality. Reality is that it has been replaced by a new boat several times but because it was done piecemeal it is regarded as the same boat.

A fiberglass boat with a couple of new hulls, several new rigs and a couple of new decks over the course of a century could be just as much regarded as "going on forever".

Just remember to retain that main beam with the reg. numbers.

In both cases it's Abe Lincoln's axe.
That's a great point. Many years ago I visited the USS Constitution in Boston. All that is left that is "original" is the keel, some of the ribs (futtocks) and the deadwood at the stern and stem. Approximately 10 to 15% of the boat. So 85% to 90% of the boat has been replaced at one point or another at no small expense.

Don't get me wrong. I think it's worth preserving and restoring as necessary but the Constitution is still with us more in spite of the fact that it's made of wood rather than because of it.
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post #49 of 63 Old 09-17-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Fiberglass ..classic??

Timber boats can be be renewed and original components might be very limited over time. However the essential identity is the same. I am not aware
of any fiberglass boats having their hull/decks replaced being regarded as the original boat. I'm sure the insurance industry would agree
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Re: Fiberglass ..classic??

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Originally Posted by jamesjle View Post
Timber boats can be be renewed and original components might be very limited over time. However the essential identity is the same. I am not aware
of any fiberglass boats having their hull/decks replaced being regarded as the original boat. I'm sure the insurance industry would agree
There are lots of boats out there that have had the majority of their cored decks replaced - much the same as a wood boat that has had all new deck planks and many new deck beams.

A glass boat that has a failed hull is scrapped in most if not all cases - my point was "theoretical" to point out the absurdity of calling those old wood boats "renewed" or "continuous". The fact that no-one bothers to do it with glass does not make the attitude towards wood any more legitimate - they are new boats, just like Abe's axe with it's new heads & new handles was not the same axe. I wonder what percentage of original wood there is in one of those "restored" Fife's in the Nioulargue? Or in Dorade for that matter.

It's just a bee in my personal bonnet.
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