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Edit: Really I am just looking for what weight range I should be looking at and what is the least amount of chain can I safely get away with? Tartan 30 8500lbs
Looking for a new anchor. Trying to see what type would be best for me and how heavy. I'm in a Tartan 30 in lake st clair. I believe it is mostly a sand/muck bottom. Lots of folks in the local bayliner forum are suggesting a 33 lb rocna. What would your suggestions be?
You must buy a $500 new second gen anchor plus 200' of chain, and an electric windlass.
You couldn't possibly get by with the traditional anchors that have worked and been recommended for decades, like a CQR, Yachtsman, Danforth, etc. - which can now be bought used for $25-75. Your boat will break loose, hit someone else's boat, smash up on the rocks and explode, killing everyone within a 10 mile radius. I have been using a traditional anchor with three-strand nylon and a short chain for years without any problems, never dragging, but I was recently informed it was entirely due to luck and had nothing to do with my good judgment and seamanship.
It is also theoretically impossible that the marketing departments of the second gen anchor manufacturers would ever publish questionable test results or post threads on sailing forums without revealing their commercial interests, all to make a profit on a device that did not need to be reinvented.
Now, go ahead, spend $1,000 and put 300 lbs. of unnecessary weight in the bow of the boat where it hurts your performance the most...
Is there anything wrong with the anchor that you have or are you being pressured into buying something different?
I always heard that one should use a Danforth where I boat. I have a Delta that works wonderfully, even better than wonderfully sometimes. I'm not getting rid of it if it's working.
I dont currently own an anchor. Not sure what weight I should get mainly. I was originally considering a danforth but not sure how much weight I should get. I was considering getting 30' of chain also but am open to suggestion. My situation is one where I usually just do some day sailing and will rarely anchor anywhere but will sometime and its nice to have one for saftey sake. My boat is sensitive to front weight so the samllest amount that is still safe is preferable. Same with the chain. If I can get by with 5' all the better. Its why Im here asking.
Uh, oh. Here we go again. I'm putting on some popcorn. Anyone want some?
To the OP, here's my take on anchors and your situation.
--Traditional style anchors work.
--Some/many folks believe that new gen anchors may work better. (I fall in that camp. I don't have one, but that's because they don't fit my bow roller.)
--Do you need "better"? I don't know. My 33# genuine Bruce seems to do fine in the Chesapeake.
--Rocna/Manson/Mantus seem to be very close in performance, based on the posts on SailNet.
--Bottom line: I'd put more weight on what's working (and not working) for sailors in your area. I think anchoring (docking, mooring, etc.) varies by locality. Local knowledge is most relevant.
uh oh sorry to open the can of works. Really all I need to know is what weight should I be looking at for a 30' tartan at 8500lbs? And how little of chain can I get away with. Never mind the type! Edit: I changed the name of the title for this thread.Edit:Unsuccessfully I guess
I question anyone who takes advice from the "Bayliner Forum".
The first question is:
What kind of bottom are you going to anchor in:
Mud? Sand? Rock?
Danforth anchors are just fine in mud, decent in sand, and not so good in rock. A Danforth anchor may be slow to re-set if the boat gets turned around by wind or current.
A Bruce anchor works pretty well in all 3, and usually re-sets a little better.
A Delta anchor sometimes lacks the fluke width necessary to hold well in very soft mud, especially if the anchor is under-sized for the boat. Otherwise, see: Bruce.
CQR anchors have a pivot point that is supposed to aid in re-setting and resisting becoming un-set. I am not a fan of these.
Danforth, Bruce and Delta are older model anchors that can be had for less money than the latest, hottest generation of anchors.
FWIW, my boat is very similar to yours. My typical anchoring conditions are mud, so I'm using a Danforth with 30 feet of slightly oversized chain, and 200 feet of 3/4" 3-strand nylon rode. I find that the oversized chain helps the anchor set more easily by keeping the angle of attack horizontal.
I consider my ground tackle to be "adequate" for week-ending. Not excessive or under-strength.
HOW HEAVY should one be for a tartan 30 that weighs 8500lbs? as stated, sand mud bottom. Whats the shortest length of chain I can safely get away with?
HOW HEAVY should one be for a tartan 30 that weighs 8500lbs? as stated, sand mud bottom. Whats the shortest length of chain I can safely get away with?
Sorry, but you're demanding answers to questions that are impossible to answer... How do any of us here know precisely what anchoring situation you might face some afternoon 3 summers from now, when a thunderstorm packing 70 mph winds might roll across Lake St Clair?
The RECOMMENDED length of chain is generally 1 foot per every foot of boat length... If you want to try to "get away with less", then go for it...
I'm with Bubblehead, I think for your situation, a Danforth style will give you the most holding power/weight for your intended usage... Weight will depend on whether you want to go with a lightweight Fortress, or a galvanized HT Danforth or something like a West Marine Performance... Recommended sizes can be found in the WM or Defender or virtually any other vendor's catalog, Fortress' site, and dozens of other sources...
However, I disagree with at least one recommendation. According to the chart, my 35 footer, could get by with a 20lb Plow. The boat came with a 25lb Delta (plow) which was virtually useless in Narragansett Bay, and the islands south of Cape Cod. The PO of my boat noted in his log that he would drag, and I had the same experience.
The rule of thumb that I have used for plow/bruce anchors is 1 pound per foot of boat length. I have a use a 33 pound Rocna (#15) as my primary anchor, and use a 35lb Spartan (CQR knockoff) as a backup.
How heavy depends alot on the anchor type. The recommended fortress size will not weigh much at all for your 8500 lb boat, while other anchors (i.e. plow) will certainly weigh more. Before asking a generic question to apply to all anchor types, it would be helpful to know what type of anchor you are considering. All anchor types have recommended sizes for length/displacement of the boat. From previous comments many think the recommended sizes are too light. I believe Rocna (and other new gen anchors??) recommend sizes based on higher wind speeds - but may need to verify.
As for chain length...I would say the general rule of thumb I've heard is a boat length...you can certainly get away with less. I have basically a boat-length, but had less before. A lot would depend on the type of bottoms, rocks, etc, that may cut through nylon rode.
I'm open to type suggestions which is why I asked and did not state a specific type. As posted twice I am in a mostly mud bottom. Lake st. Clair. No heavy weather anchoring, no rocks, rarely will even anchor. Just want to make an informed decision but add the least amount of weight. I'm leaning toward a 7 lb fortress with about 10' of chain, but am curious as to what others are using for day sailing on the great lakes specifically lake st clair. usually 5-10 knots and less than 2 feet of waves. I would like to have the option to sleep out at anchor some time but usually will just go out for a few hrs and rarely even anchor. ps. Not demanding answers, just looking for suggestions, and what others are getting using. When I say get away with I just mean I dont want to buy a 33lb plow type if I can use a 7 lb fortress or a 16lb danforth(which I dont get cuz arent they pretty much the same)Plus they go with half the weight if its high tensile. what should that matter? The 50mph thunderstorm needs to be included as its part of sailing. I want to be thoroughly covered but add the least weight as I have to. Maybe "get away with" was not the best choice of words. I just want an adequate anchor without adding weight that I dont need
One more thing to note about the fortress is you can set the fluke angle specifically for mud. They hold ok in soft mud, which most anchors have problems with. That might make it worth the extra $$ in your case.
I believe the Fortress is aluminum. I had one, they are nice anchors.
Basically, you're talking about putting together a "lunch hook" package. Safe for anchoring for lunch or an afternoon swim. Also good as a light package for complying with racing rules requiring you to carry an anchor, without packing on the weight.
This is fine, but be conservative when considering when to anchor, and what the wind and current conditions are. If you find yourself looking to anchor overnight, anchoring often, or anchoring in blustery conditions, don't delay in upgrading your ground tackle.
That would depend on the conditions in which you find yourself anchoring. The term "Lunch Hook" generally refers to 15 knots of wind or less (or thereabouts). Upsizing is helpful, which is what the FX-16 appears to be doing. For where we routinely sail, if conditions are forecast to be above 20 knots we will head to our marina instead of anchoring out. We are always close enough to make the decision, even is severe storms are forecast to roll through. However, if you are planning on sailing farther where that is not an option for you, larger ground tackle will help you sleep better at night should the wind pick/storm pass by...
Going at least one size up from the recommended anchor is always helpful should you have doubts..
I think you are looking for someone to tell you definitively: "Go buy THIS type of anchor and THIS MUCH chain." Correct?
Personally, I wouldn't want that responsibility. What you're getting is what other people would do but that may not be right for your boat. I think you should do your research and decide what works best for your boat, where you sail and with your level of comfort.
I do agree with Bubblehead that you should buy with an eye towards the heaviest weather conditions so that you'll be prepared.
We just replaced our ground tackle set-up earlier this year and went through this same process...we have a Cat 28 MKII with an 8600 lb displacement. We went with a 25 lb Manson Supreme (new gen) with 30' of 5/16" chain...nylon rode was 9/16" only because they had it on hand, otherwise would have went with 1/2".
We use the 7 lb fortress as a second anchor, although we haven't needed to use it yet. I know you're not looking for specific anchor recommendations, but the Manson Supreme so far has held great, even at shorter scopes. Previously we had a Bruce knock-off and you can definately tell the difference.
33lb rocna vs 10lb fx16. I think I'll save the 20lbs. Going into this I did not realize how type and weight varied. I just thought it was as simple as how much weight. I mean 16 33lbs sounds better than 10 but if they both hold as well I think I'll take the less weight. I think I'm going to go fx16 with 30' of chain as long as thats not a big red flag in anyones book.
The big difference is in the material. The Fortress is aluminum and the others are steel. The Fortress is a great holding anchor provided you don't re-set often. Where we are, with 10' tidal ranges, and strong currents we do this just about every night.
One fall our Fortress let us down early one morning when it needed to re-set on its own, and failed to. We came damn close to smashing into solid granite.
The day before winds had exceeded 30 knots and the anchor was very well set powering back on it at max RPM in reverse then sustaining many, many, many hours in the 30 knot range.. It never budged an inch with the winds blowing from that direction. 30 knots is not a huge load for our Fortress.
We awoke the next morning to over 25 knots with a 180 degree shift from the day before... When it let go it did not drag it just let go and we were moving fast. A quick dive for the key and we were able to saved the boat... That was the last time we used our Fortress as a primary anchor. It is now our stern anchor and it performs that task extremely well when needed to do so...
On a lake it would be much rarer for these types of swinging events so the Fortress should suffice..... Just be sure to use the mud palms if in a soft bottom..
Spade also makes a light weight aluminum anchor but compared to the identical anchor in steel it sets horribly in a hard substrate. I own both the aluminum and steel versions and the steel is a significantly better setter in hard bottoms.
A very gracious offer from t37chef that I may very well take up. Thanks. For one more question. Very simple question with yes/no answer. Do you think its overkill to step up to a fx23 for my t30? And thank you for all your replies.
A very gracious offer from t37chef that I may very well take up. Thanks. For one more question. Very simple question with yes/no answer. Do you think its overkill to step up to a fx23 for my t30? And thank you for all your replies.
Yes, unless you need a storm anchor. Any weakness of the Fortress is not related to its ability to hold your boat, for which an FX-16 is more than enough. The only weakness of this design is from it's poorer abilities to re-set on a wind or tide shift..
If you go too big with these you may not be able to get a good enough "power-set" so the FX-16 may actually bury better than the FX-23 based on your boats ability to back down hard on it.
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