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My Peak Sails Experience

58K views 107 replies 44 participants last post by  Jeff_H 
#1 ·
I've read several posts here and elsewhere about Peak Sails (Peak Sails North America - Peak Sails North America). I thought it may be instructive to describe my first-hand experiences in factual, objective terms while leaving conclusions and opinion to the reader.

I wanted a mainsail and 110% hank-on jib for my Hinterhoeller HR28. No off-the-shelf sails (Catalina, Hunter, etc.) were close enough for me. I am a very casual cruiser, using the boat maybe 15-20 days per year so price was my primary purchase criteria. I had no reservation taking my own sail measurements (all the firms use the same basic form) and ordering over the internet with a credit card. I did not want/need the service (and price) a full service loft would provide.

I obtained quotes from several discount-overseas operations, trying to compare apples to apples by choosing each loft's Dacron cross-cut mid-grade ("Offshore", "Bluewater") or optioned-up sails rather than their base, OEM-grade sails. The following where my delivered quotes for the mainsail and 110% hank-on jib:
FarEastSails.com $1,950
Rolly Tasker (direct) $870, mainsail only
Rolly Tasker (through National Sail Supply) $2,185
Precision Sails $2,017
Peak Sails $1,444 (promo: 15% off "Bluewater sail" pricing when buying 2 sails).

I chose Peak Sails' Bluewater sails from the quotes shown, less 15% promotional discount for buying 2 sails, plus $40 shipping to my home for $1,444 total billed in 4 monthly installments. After a few email and phone exchanges with Peak's rep (Chris Stevens), we had details settled and the first credit card installment secured the order on July 15. I was told to expect the sails in mid-August, around 30 days later.

By August 22, I still had received no sails, nor any communication. I emailed asking for a status update and received no reply. Over the next few days I tried their Tysons Corner VA phone perhaps 6 times and always received a recording asking me to leave a message, which I declined to do… by then I wanted our dealings in writing in case I had to lodge a credit card dispute.

On August 28 I wrote another email indicating my intention to lodge a credit card dispute if I did not hear from them in timely fashion. The monthly installments were posted on the 16th of each month, so I knew I had 2+ weeks until installment #3 was to be charged and I would not let it go that long.

That same day, August 28, I did hear back from Peak rep Deanna Freng who indicated the sails were scheduled to be shipped from the Far East in the next day or two for receipt in Colorado the first week of September, then re-sent to customers. I would receive a Fedex Tracking number for that shipment.

On September 12 I received the Fedex tracking number for the shipment from Dongguan China (China Sail Factory??) to Colorado. On September 17 I received the Fedex tracking number for my sails from Colorado to my east coast home. On September 23, I received both sails.

Below are some photos of the sail to illustrate (as best as can be shown in photos) the material and workmanship. Time will tell whether these sails hold up or not, but they are (finally) here.
 

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#3 ·
Maybe I'm not clear, but did Peak Sails inspect the sails before forwarding them to you? Seems like they went to Colorado (not a lot of sailing there) to your door.

I know you don't want to voice your opinion (you can PM me if you'd like) but would you buy from PS again?
 
#4 ·
Actually, I'd like to hear that answer, too. To my highly untrained eye, the pictures/sails look decent. What's your perception? I can appreciate that it took them what seems like a fairly long time to get to you, and that you may not be happy with that aspect of the transaction. My guess is that they batched the sails to help save shipping costs, which is what lead to the delay. Other than the time and cruddy communications skills, what is your impression?
 
#5 ·
I suspect, but do not know for sure that the shipment to Colorado was a larger container containing my sails and those for many other customers, from the Chinese loft. In Colorado they were re-packed and shipped to the various customers.

I emailed them today voicing my (so far) satisfaction with the product but disappointment with their customer service practices, and I requested (per their website pledge) that my final installment be lowered by 5% of the total charge since delivery took more than 30 days. They immediately replied that they would reduce my final installment by $70. So I got custom cut up-optioned sails for a 28 footer for under $1400, delivered.

Would I buy from them again? Yes... they provide for 4 equal credit card payment installments which to me gives me leverage to lodge a dispute procedure if things go south. Granted, that's a hassle if it has to happen, but then again, these sails were hundreds less than their internet-order competitors. Some are not comfortable with risk, but I am.

I believe the sails came from China Sail Factory, who also contract manufacture for some big-time lofts. My guess is Peak gets cut-rate prices from the factory in exchange for not getting firm production schedules... Peak's orders get fit-in when the factory has a production gap. This is common for job-lot manufacturers (but the end-customer should know the delivery timetable is uncertain.)

So in all, I am reasonably satisfied, but fall short of an unqualified endorsement. They'll work for me as I am a casual cruiser who would not appreciate a fully custom-cut sail anyway ... hell, I just try to miss the buoys.
 
#56 · (Edited)
I believe the sails came from China Sail Factory, who also contract manufacture for some big-time lofts. My guess is Peak gets cut-rate prices from the factory in exchange for not getting firm production schedules... Peak's orders get fit-in when the factory has a production gap. This is common for job-lot manufacturers (but the end-customer should know the delivery timetable is uncertain.)
.
[Full disclosure: I am an online sailmaker. I operate an independent business, Hyde Sails Direct We have a strategic alliance with Hyde Sails International. Hyde Sail LLC owns and operates one of the largest production lofts in the world. Hyde builds more than 50,000 sails per year, for their own name-brand, for small "private label" brands and for some large, well-known name-brands]

That's a guess, with no basis in actual fact.

China Sail Factory doesn't offer anybody "cut-rate prices from the factory in exchange for not getting firm production schedules" They publish their prices via their online ordering system. They don't give anybody special treatment. Production slots are booked via their online ordering system. All the communication is highly automated online, and everybody has to use the same online interface to place orders. No special breaks for anybody, with the possible exception of some high-volume-based resellers who are subject to annual production contracts.

As an insider in the global sailmaking industry, I have first hand knowledge of how China Sail Factory operates.
 
#8 ·
The fact that you actually have sails in your posession puts you ahead of many Peak Sails customers who have posted here.

Yep, your photos show sail cloth and sail bags, so congratulations are in order. There's no telling if the cut and fit are correct though. Fingers crossed for you.

I'll not be ordering from Peak. You're the exception, not the rule, I'm afraid.
I expect to be visiting my local Quantum rep this winter for a new, 155%.
 
#9 ·
While there have been many posts citing all sorts of rumors and allegations, I don't recall reading any first-hand accounts of people who ordered from Peak and did not receive product.

While I do not know for certain that Peak subs their sails out to China Sail Factory, the Dongguan China origin suggests it is CSF. Google them for some interesting info... one may not approve of outsourcing to the Far East, but it is a fact of economic life.
 
#11 ·
Almost all lofts outsource their labor to asian manufacturing. A US based loft can't compete with $2/hr wages. We have standards.

Q, North, US, Evo, and many others also have QA/QC standards. Which is why they get drop shipped to a central location in the US to be inspected. If there is an issue, they get sent back, or they're fixed by the loft state-side before making it to the customer.
 
#12 ·
I sailed with the new sails today and they fit and functioned just fine.

Will they last as long as comparably-featured sails from a full-service loft? I don't know, but I for one do believe that sailmaking long ago passed from being mystical art to now being simple science. And the big Far East lofts have the efficiency in modern manufacturing methods and low-cost labor to create competitive product.
 
#13 · (Edited)
I ordered from Chris Stevens at Peak Sails NA this week(30Sep2013). I requested a quote update for the Tri-radial mainsail to fit our Ericson. The previos quote date had expired. It was the same, but with a 10% discount.
Chris responded via e-mail, then on monday I called and left messages. He returned my call within minutes of my second message. He asked many questions. The conversation was a challenge due to my screaming CNC machine making it hard for him to hear me.
I sent pictures and measurements, and recieved a call from a lady in Colorado, saying that he had recieved them.
So, after two days, they have all that's needed to make the sail.
I'm hoping to have in time for our Veterans Day sail.
 
#14 ·
One quibble about a pricing and labor comment... Our local NW UKSails loft announced last year that they have expanded their loft (located in BC) quite a bit and are nowadays building many sails in-house. Evidently there is a measurable cost saving over shipping costs from overseas.

Just one more data point......

Loren
 
#18 ·
Happy to report that our sail order arrived today. Sails were shipped at the same time in two boxes, one 45 pounds, and one 60 pounds. The lighter box arrived 3 days ago, the heavier one today.
Will not have a chance to bend the sails this season, but we spread them out on our front lawn.
They are radial cut and look beautiful. Stitching looks good, and construction looks neat. Some nice things were Velcro pockets for the tension line cleats on the genoa.
One small item were missing grommets for the main where the reefing lines have to be tied around the boom. Peak is issuing me a check that will more than cover installing them.
Overall, I'm very pleased with the quality and price of our new sails. As to how they fit and sail, I'll find that out in the Spring.
I did discuss some of the negative comments posted on this forum with Chris, and he replied some of that was due to previous ownership, and he's trying to rectify past problems.
So, what we got were a new set of radial cut sails at just about the same price for a standard cut set, and so far the service and follow-up have been outstanding.
Can't wait for April now!!
 
#17 ·
My experience with Peak Sails was nothing short of horrifying. I certainly am to blame for going to them in the first place.
No answer on the first call but I left a message and was called back by Chris Stevens in VA. He took my order and my money. I had to get back to him with colors, which was more difficult and took several days. Two weeks later I had still not received an invoice for $2334 worth of goods. After much effort I was put on the phone with Art Kelly who immediately dove into me about how unreasonable I was and who proceeded to tell me that I was, and I quote, "a s--t head", "an a--hole", a "f--king looser" and other niceties. I was shocked. I ran a construction business for 20 years and NEVER heard anyone go into a customer like this EVER, ANYWHERE! He claimed to have 400 employees, (that is totally false, they may have 4 or 5) he claimed huge amounts of business and this is why I couldn't get a receipt for so long. He thought it was unreasonable of me to want information or a receipt and rather than listen to the customer, went off on his tirade. He needs real help; this was truly antisocial behavior. I couldn't even get very angry at him, only pity, it was so bizarre. I now understand why this is at least his second failing business venture.
Read the BBB listings for both Kelly-Hanson and Peak. Read the blogs in this, and other sites. You will see a history of customer complaints. Remember, these are only a percentage of all that they might have received. It is truly surprising because what they do is intrinsically easy. They take orders, have a loft in Hong Kong produce the sails(Wilfer Sails) send them to a garage in Colorado where they are repacked and send them on. I personally don't have a problem with that. What they add, unfortunately, is shoddy business practices, no coordination or tracking, no infrastructure, a huge lack of communication and is virtually no customer service. Couple that with an owner who has no desire to be professional or accept advice from anyone and you have a disaster. Art Kelly could have a great business, given his attitude and personality, that won’t happen. They are likely in the position of robbing Peter to pay Paul and this is why so many people can not get their product. Wilfer Sails won't ship without up front payment, they are NOT affiliated with Peak Sails. You are risking being the last customer Peak Sails has and losing your money or not having a service oriented company to sort out your defective sail.
Will a sail from almost any other loft cost more? It certainly will. Will it be worth it? It certainly will. You will receive prompt service, valuable assistance and help, a better product with guarantees that are backed up and professional behavior from their staff or owner.
If you see the name “Peak Sails” change course.
You can also order from Wilfer Sails Direct and save much more, beware the quality though.
 
#19 ·
My experience with Peak Sails was nothing short of horrifying. I certainly am to blame for going to them in the first place.
No answer on the first call but I left a message and was called back by Chris Stevens in VA. He took my order and my money. I had to get back to him with colors, which was more difficult and took several days. Two weeks later I had still not received an invoice for $2334 worth of goods. After much effort I was put on the phone with Art Kelly who immediately dove into me about how unreasonable I was and who proceeded to tell me that I was, and I quote, "a s--t head", "an a--hole", a "f--king looser" and other niceties. I was shocked. I ran a construction business for 20 years and NEVER heard anyone go into a customer like this EVER, ANYWHERE! He claimed to have 400 employees, (that is totally false, they may have 4 or 5) he claimed huge amounts of business and this is why I couldn't get a receipt for so long. He thought it was unreasonable of me to want information or a receipt and rather than listen to the customer, went off on his tirade. He needs real help; this was truly antisocial behavior. I couldn't even get very angry at him, only pity, it was so bizarre. I now understand why this is at least his second failing business venture.
Read the BBB listings for both Kelly-Hanson and Peak. Read the blogs in this, and other sites. You will see a history of customer complaints. Remember, these are only a percentage of all that they might have received. It is truly surprising because what they do is intrinsically easy. They take orders, have a loft in Hong Kong produce the sails(Wilfer Sails) send them to a garage in Colorado where they are repacked and send them on. I personally don't have a problem with that. What they add, unfortunately, is shoddy business practices, no coordination or tracking, no infrastructure, a huge lack of communication and is virtually no customer service. Couple that with an owner who has no desire to be professional or accept advice from anyone and you have a disaster. Art Kelly could have a great business, given his attitude and personality, that won't happen. They are likely in the position of robbing Peter to pay Paul and this is why so many people can not get their product. Wilfer Sails won't ship without up front payment, they are NOT affiliated with Peak Sails. You are risking being the last customer Peak Sails has and losing your money or not having a service oriented company to sort out your defective sail.
Will a sail from almost any other loft cost more? It certainly will. Will it be worth it? It certainly will. You will receive prompt service, valuable assistance and help, a better product with guarantees that are backed up and professional behavior from their staff or owner.
If you see the name "Peak Sails" change course.
You can also order from Wilfer Sails Direct and save much more, beware the quality though.
It had been rumored that Mr. Kelly was involved with Peak Sails.
 
#20 ·
Rather than go through Peak Sails you can order direct with Wilfer Sails. They are the Chinese loft that Peak sails buys from. They then mark them up. On a spinnaker that cost 2400 from Peak it was 1800 from Wilfer. Because of other issues Wilfer has, I ended up going with Kappa Sails for considerably more but with the knowledge that the sails are built here (Ohio) and the commitment for quality and service is there. Peak Sails is far from a legitimate sail maker. They are brokers, nothing more. They are, as the BBB listing shows (F), poor businessmen. Art Kelly's previous business attempt, Kelly-Hanson, had a BBB listing of an "F" as well. My conversation with Art showed how unprofessional and un-businesslike a person can be. I can see no benefit from doing business with these people. Your sails are your primary engine, don't short yourself or your boat.
 
#21 ·
Reporting back on my order w Peak Sails..Received both a 130% and 95% headsail (tri-radial, Warp Drive Dacron) from Peak in less than 30 days since order..overall v happy with the sails. 130% was cut pretty much perfectly (#5 tape), flies beautifully and looks to be made to industry standard. Blade was ordered with 3 battens (almost always in high winds in SF Bay), cut was near perfect for my Hobie 33. Small issue with this was an undersized clue grommet but Chris got back to me v quickly w an offer to cover the replacement at a local loft; he was v responsive throughout the process. For the price, I'm very impressed.

Suspect that a lot of commentary for Peak was from previous mgt., I would definitely recommend them based on these first two sails (assuming you're like me, looking for decent quality Dacron sails, not ubertech race sails).
 
#22 ·
My experience with Peak Sails and Chris Stevens has been nothing but enjoyable.

I ordered their Bluewater Cruise mainsail and genoa as well as a custom shaped asymmetrical for my Island Packet 27 and was more than thrilled with the quality of the sails.

I wanted a reaching assymetrical and Chris had a design drawing over in minutes after my call. It wasn't a design or sail that came off the shelf.

My guess is that 90% of more of the sails sold in the U.S. are made offshore. Other than the small handful of independents, everyone else is doing it. The problem is we all want U.S. made sails but very few can afford the premium.

Personally, I could care less where the sails are made. I am happy with my purchase and would not hesitate to use them again.
 
#30 ·
My experience with Peak Sails and Chris Stevens has been nothing but enjoyable.
tworeefs, welcome! So how did you come to be moved to join Sailnet and for your first post, praise Peak? This type of coincidence seems to happen with establishments with checkered records.
 
#23 ·
The "New" management is the same as the old. I had numerous unanswered calls and emails to Chris. This is AFTER they took my money. I finally got a reply, not from Chris, not from Art, but Deanna, the lady that receives the sails in Colorado who is the only bright spot in the company. Glad you had good luck but the tirade and cussing I got when finally I spoke with Art Kelly(he screens his calls) it was nothing short of psychotic and childlike. All I wanted were some answers that Chris would not get back to me on. After the "conversation" I canceled the order on my card despite being told I would be refunded. Art is a piece of work. Like I said, both Peak Sails and his previous attempt have "f" ratings with the BBB. The design aspect is suspect as far as it being done by them. Wilfer Sails is a design build loft. I work with Kappa Sails because I trust them with my business. The people ALWAYS answer the phone, they always get back. Heck they even made a sail bag out of different material because Brian(the owner) remembered my wife doesn't like red. Kappa Sails is a stand up outfit with thoughtful and diligent people. I received a call from the loft in Ohio because I had a question about the design, Brian had them call me and they did. He then checked back to be sure I was satisfied! I wouldn't buy a cheap furnace from people I didn't trust for a dirt home, why would I buy sails for my boat from dubious characters? Everyone is free to make their own decisions, good or bad.
 
#24 ·
Like I said, my sails from Peak have now been repeatedly flogged on SF Bay..beautiful cut and v well built for the price. Think customer numbers and reports will eventually show the quality of any builder. Like I said, great customer experience w Peak Sails and Chris. Contact me if you want more detail.
 
#26 ·
Oooyyvahh..like I said, time will tell how happy customers are with ANY maker...I have not interest in Peak or any other loft,, have used Precsions and a 3 local (SF) makers..suspect though that there's a lot of folks that troll this space to pull down anyone else, then recommend some loft no one has ever hear of..just sayin...if I could get the upload to work on this site, I'd post pics...effin Windows 8
 
#27 ·
I do find it interesting that Chris Stevens blames previous management. All my problems were with him and Art Kelly the "New" owners. All the BBB complaints are in the Art and Chris time frame. All the BBB complaints with Art's prior business (Kelly-Hanson)were his as well. If you wish to go that route consider simply ordering from Wilfer Sails directly. They do all the design and fabrication anyway. You at least save an additional 15 to 20%. To the best of my knowledge, the sails are not quality checked when they arrive here; only repacked and sent out of Colorado. Chris is in Tyson's Corner, VA and Art is in Washington state I believe. They are brokers.
I am glad those of you who had success are happy. Many are not.
 
#31 ·
I have been visiting this site for years. It is a great place for information.

However, I do not really have the desire to discuss companies and its employees on a public forum. It just seems wrong.

I simply piped in because I had a decent experience with the company.

As usual, anyone that feels differently and does not spend every waking moment on these forums will be labeled a troll just because they do not.

A question. When Chrysler essentially went bankrupt and Fiat purchased their assets, does that make Fiat a "bad" company as well?

It is interesting that the only folks that seem to be ripping on the company are ones that haven't spent a nickle with them.

As far as windnrock is concerned. Obviously, his experience was not the greatest. However, there seems to be a trend developing here. Anytime a positive review is posted, he feels the need to respond to them. And each one is more vociferous then the last. There is probably more to this situation. There usually is.

Guys, do not kill the messengers or private employees of a company who are simply doing their jobs.

You have a few folks with good things to report. Take it for what its worth.
 
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