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  #21  
Old 10-05-2013
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Re: Roaches !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
borax, commonly used as a laundry detergent booster also works.
borax is a salt of boric acid. I use it in the wash if the water is hard. Gets things much cleaner
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  #22  
Old 10-06-2013
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Re: Roaches !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfloyd4445 View Post
all those chemicals are dangerous some listed human carcinogens except for boric acid. Boric acid< powdered> is approved even for food use and will kill all vermin of this type and their spawn in three weeks or less. Please don't add more chemicals to our water that will add to the man made chemical load we have already added to our water. When I was a kid the water was clean now we cant eat the fish because of toxic buildup from mans chemical factories. I'm 66, worked for EPA for 24 years. Just imagine what the fish consumption will be in another fifty years if we keep adding to the pot?
I know they say you can eat a couple of servings a week but I don't trust them do you? The old timers used to put funnels on dock lines to keep vermin from getting aboard
I agree with you, but...

Banned as food additive in US.
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  #23  
Old 10-06-2013
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Re: Roaches !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
I agree with you, but...

Banned as food additive in US.
wiki list's it and borax as still being allowed

List of food additives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and it is also on the list of allowed food additives at the FDA's website

Everything Added to Food in the United States (EAFUS)

I did find were it was banned in the USA for in in drugs by the FDA
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  #24  
Old 10-07-2013
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Re: Roaches !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfloyd4445 View Post
wiki list's it and borax as still being allowed

List of food additives - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and it is also on the list of allowed food additives at the FDA's website

Everything Added to Food in the United States (EAFUS)

I did find were it was banned in the USA for in in drugs by the FDA

This, from the FDA

Food Additive Status List

"Borax - MISC, ILL, No petition filed, Illegal for use in foods incl. wax ctg for fruits and vegetables. MID permits use in export meats."

---

Confusing, perhaps, because the lists include both permissible AND forbidden chemicals.
__________________
(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




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  #25  
Old 10-07-2013
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Re: Roaches !!!

PLEASE understand that I am NOT trying to inflame any one!

BUT, let's look at the reality of life aboard a boat! If you are weekend/short vacation sailing in known first world areas, You what ever you need in small quantities you feel is required.

OR, live with a small problem during the short time aboard.

We were cruising full time (24/7) for years at a time and most of the time in some very remote areas, areas with a known large cockroach infestation.

Our option was/is to live with a large infestation or take action. Living with roaches is NOT an option for us!!!

MANY options exist to combat the bugs, some better than others, and some that are no good at all!

In that vain, we looked at and used MANY types of weapons against the buggers! We first started with boric acid, then boric acid with additives like sugar, condensed milk, cookies, etc.... The strait acid is a powder and only sits on flat surfaces and needs to be replaced often. And you breath the fumes as it's stirred up around the boat. Wash or vacuum and you need to start over.

Our video (posted in my first reply) above shows what we found works, and works well. Since moving aboard in 1996, to date, we have NO cockroaches! And we even had cardboard (from very remote stores) aboard at times.

*** LET ME RESTATE THAT, since 1996 to date – NO COCKROACHES ***

Weather a product is OK for a human to eat (as determined by the government) has NO baring on the subject. Sorry, but don't get me started on what food is safe for us, GMO & all!

The “chalk” we use is never in anything we eat! It is used to mark the sides of the hull and areas where the bugs crawl. All the sites are normally out of sight to us. AND, it stays in place for months and years and still works!!!!!!! In the years, it would have taken 10s of pounds of boric to do what one small chalk stick has done!

In the USA, we have found it in discount stores and Asian markets.

What ever a captain chooses to use, all of the option and usage should be weighed, What it is, how dangerous it is, how much is required, how often must it be used.

Sailing & cruising is dangerous in itself, we all try to lower the risk, the fuel & oil are not safe to eat, but we use them. We try to keep all unsafe chemicals out of our water, after all, it's where we live!

Greg
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  #26  
Old 10-07-2013
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Re: Roaches !!!

I have no insecticide phobia, I just like to keep things to a minimum. Re. borax, I think it's great stuff, just not food.

The EPA gets rather vocal about the chalk...
Insecticide Chalk | Pesticides | US EPA
... and I can see their point about labling and kids. Not much of a concern for retired cruisers.

Wiki on the other hand said it "contains the pesticides deltamethrin and cypermethrin" and "Despite its illegal status, 'Chinese Chalk' is still imported from China and sold in Chinatowns in the United States. Worldwide, the product remains very popular due to its effectiveness in rapidly controlling crawling household insect infestations without fumes, foul smells or sticky toxic residues, and its relatively low overall toxin content compared to other insecticides."

The ingredients seem to be thought relatively safe.

These are used in the US. Thus, it is only the packaging that the USEPA hates, which makes sense. Seems like a good product to me, specifically because application can be so well controlled.
__________________
(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




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  #27  
Old 10-07-2013
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Re: Roaches !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
This, from the FDA

Food Additive Status List

"Borax - MISC, ILL, No petition filed, Illegal for use in foods incl. wax ctg for fruits and vegetables. MID permits use in export meats."

---

Confusing, perhaps, because the lists include both permissible AND forbidden chemicals.
I find borax on the prohibited list but not boric acid. That's why I researched further and found it listed as ok which I posted earlier
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  #28  
Old 10-07-2013
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Re: Roaches !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfloyd4445 View Post
I find borax on the prohibited list but not boric acid. That's why I researched further and found it listed as ok which I posted earlier
How do you figure (Reference)?

"10.2.2.5 Borates
A. Introduction

Boric Acid has been prohibited for use in foods as a preservative."

Volume IV - 10.2 Food and Color Additives

I believe you will find that it is approved as a preservative in paper products and adhesives that are in indirect food contact. I suspect that is the listing you found.
__________________
(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




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  #29  
Old 10-07-2013
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Re: Roaches !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
This, from the FDA

Food Additive Status List

"Borax - MISC, ILL, No petition filed, Illegal for use in foods incl. wax ctg for fruits and vegetables. MID permits use in export meats."

---

Confusing, perhaps, because the lists include both permissible AND forbidden chemicals.
it is confusing. below is a link to page four of the list of all allowed food additives and you can see boric acid is listed

Everything Added to Food in the United States (EAFUS)

the code NUL, associated with boric acid means <>
I guess that is why it is still on the ok list.
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  #30  
Old 10-07-2013
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Re: Roaches !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
I have no insecticide phobia, I just like to keep things to a minimum. Re. borax, I think it's great stuff, just not food.

The EPA gets rather vocal about the chalk...
Insecticide Chalk | Pesticides | US EPA
... and I can see their point about labling and kids. Not much of a concern for retired cruisers.

Wiki on the other hand said it "contains the pesticides deltamethrin and cypermethrin" and "Despite its illegal status, 'Chinese Chalk' is still imported from China and sold in Chinatowns in the United States. Worldwide, the product remains very popular due to its effectiveness in rapidly controlling crawling household insect infestations without fumes, foul smells or sticky toxic residues, and its relatively low overall toxin content compared to other insecticides."

The ingredients seem to be thought relatively safe.
Deltamethrin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Cypermethrin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These are used in the US. Thus, it is only the packaging that the USEPA hates, which makes sense. Seems like a good product to me, specifically because application can be so well controlled.
This looks like some good stuff. I understand why the EPA would not like it, first they did not get there money to approve it, but more importantly it does look like a child would think it was chalk, and we all knew a kid in grade school that ate both chalk and paste (what ever happened to him?) and that could easily be deadly. So if you have children around, especially if you frequently have guests with children, I think it would be safe to say do not use or have around the boat! But if you are an adult and understand to not eat chalk, especially this chalk then you should be OK. I like the way it looks like it can be used in a very controlled fashion. But don't like that it looks like a child's toy.

To my idea looks like a use with caution product.
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