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  #21  
Old 10-23-2013
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Re: How much deck over the cabin do I remove?

On my boat I've been thinking of drilling a regular grid of 1/4 inch holes (maybe from inside the cabin), 1 inch or so apart. I saw this in a West System PDF as a way of drying out the core where it is not yet rotten. Seems like a good idea, but we will see!

Maybe that would work in this case. At the very least, drilling a preliminary grid of holes maybe 4 inches apart would map out the extent of the job.

BTW, how the job is done depends on how much experience one has with fiberglass and epoxy. It can go from very hard to not that bad depending on the skills and approach used.
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  #22  
Old 10-23-2013
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Re: How much deck over the cabin do I remove?

??How many layers of fiberglass would it take to make a solid GRP cabin roof?
It would be a real PITA job but it would last a really long time.
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  #23  
Old 10-23-2013
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Re: How much deck over the cabin do I remove?

Quote:
Originally Posted by YRoy View Post
On my boat I've been thinking of drilling a regular grid of 1/4 inch holes (maybe from inside the cabin), 1 inch or so apart. I saw this in a West System PDF as a way of drying out the core where it is not yet rotten. Seems like a good idea, but we will see!

Maybe that would work in this case. At the very least, drilling a preliminary grid of holes maybe 4 inches apart would map out the extent of the job.

BTW, how the job is done depends on how much experience one has with fiberglass and epoxy. It can go from very hard to not that bad depending on the skills and approach used.
Yes, some people will drill holes and inject epoxy into the holes to stiffen up the deck. It is a bit of a hack, but works for some. The biggest issue (as most of these boats it is either a quick fix or it faces a battle with a chain saw) is that if it does not work you now have two pieces of fiberglass with a mixture of rotted wood, and hardened epoxy that is basically impossible to separate and clean up. I have seen some that have used a grease gun to force out the water and force in the epoxy after they screw zirk fittings into the holes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desert rat View Post
??How many layers of fiberglass would it take to make a solid GRP cabin roof?
It would be a real PITA job but it would last a really long time.
Well in order to get enough stiffness, I think it would be a LOT and LOTS of resin, so much so as you would spend more on 2 part resin (the stuff is expensive) than the boat is likely worth, and it would be heavy enough to effect the sailing qualities in a quite negative way. There is a reason ALL quality manufactures use a core of some sort. Especially if your mast is deck stepped.
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  #24  
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Re: How much deck over the cabin do I remove?

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Originally Posted by miatapaul View Post
Yes, some people will drill holes and inject epoxy into the holes to stiffen up the deck. It is a bit of a hack, but works for some. The biggest issue (as most of these boats it is either a quick fix or it faces a battle with a chain saw) is that if it does not work you now have two pieces of fiberglass with a mixture of rotted wood, and hardened epoxy that is basically impossible to separate and clean up. I have seen some that have used a grease gun to force out the water and force in the epoxy after they screw zirk fittings into the holes.

I've also heard of that injecting epoxy into rotten wood method but I really don't like that approach!

I would drill holes strictly to map out the extent of the water saturation and help dry it out.

I'm thinking of using Last-a-foam, it would allow me to start and stop work at almost any stage in the project without leaving a breach in the deck that would absorb even more water.

The little bit of the core I saw on our Grampian 28 seems to be about 1/4 inch thick, but I don't know if it is that thickness everywhere.
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Re: How much deck over the cabin do I remove?

Quote:
Originally Posted by YRoy View Post
I've also heard of that injecting epoxy into rotten wood method but I really don't like that approach!

I would drill holes strictly to map out the extent of the water saturation and help dry it out.

I'm thinking of using Last-a-foam, it would allow me to start and stop work at almost any stage in the project without leaving a breach in the deck that would absorb even more water.

The little bit of the core I saw on our Grampian 28 seems to be about 1/4 inch thick, but I don't know if it is that thickness everywhere.
I was not sure if that was what you were talking about or not. But on the other hand if it keeps the boat sailing and not being cut up then I see it as not all bad. As long as the person doing it understands that it may not be the best way. That is the problem with a lot of these old boats, cost more to fix than they are worth in many cases.
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Old 10-25-2013
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Re: How much deck over the cabin do I remove?

I'm not sure what the boat means to you right now, but you need to make some philosophical decisions, before you make technical decisions...

If you don't have a lot of money already invested, my advice would be to figure out the cheapest way to make some safe hand holds and go sailing! Sail, Sail, Sail! Have fun, spend more time on the water, than in the yard.

Have you sailed the boat already? If it's fun, no need to change much.

I can tell you from experience, a project that large, done right, will take more time and money than you think.

I would be tempted to go get some 1/4" thick pre-made laminate (I forget the name of the cheap G10 style product... anyone?). I would cut sets of circles out of the sheet of laminate - two sizes: one an inch or three larger than the 'posts' you are cutting out and the other about two or three inches in diameter. I would epoxy the smaller circle to the top of the larger ones and then drill a hole through the center and epoxy a nut and washer to the bottom side (use the bolt, covered in wax, to hold it together while it cures). I would dry out the area under the removed 'posts' as best I could and fill it with foam and a gorgeous amount of polyester resin and the filler of your choice. Then I would mount the circles to the deck, using epoxy, covering the holes in the deck where the posts were. Finally, I would make another wooden hand rail and bolt it to the new circular plates (paint the plates with Rustolium). Next, I would Go Sailing!

Forget about the wet core. Stop more water from getting in and sail the boat until it dies of old age, then celebrate it's life and the joy it's given you.


Or, you can spend five times what it's worth making it perfect, only to turn around and try to sell it for less than half of what you paid for it in the first place - Like I'm doing: Mirage 26 Sailboat - Complete Refit - Excellent condition! - Ontario Sailboats For Sale - Kijiji Ontario Canada.

Either way, best of luck and don't forget to sail it, as much as possible!
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Last edited by serenespeed; 10-25-2013 at 03:50 PM.
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Re: How much deck over the cabin do I remove?

Such common sense!


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  #28  
Old 10-26-2013
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Re: How much deck over the cabin do I remove?

My approach so far is start with an inexpensive boat, and learn from there. Don't put silly amounts of money into it, because you will never get it back out!

Time is a bit different though, some of us have more of it than others....

BTW, we actually looked at the add for the Sassafras before we bought the Grampian 28. We only seriously considered boats we could afford to sink.
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Re: How much deck over the cabin do I remove?

This boat came to us so a friend could stop paying rent for it to be in a yard. It has sat for the past 6 years. I paid to get it to my house. SO far, thats the extent of cash out, except for some cleaning supplies. I am certainly of the mind to keep it simple, make sure its safe to sail, and get her launched in the spring.
I think I will take off the posts, reinforce the area so it will take a new handrail securely. I can polish her up, do some other fun little projects to make it homey and comfortable, and sail the heck out of it. Its a great opportunity to find out what I like and if I want a more 'serious' boat. Meantime, I am super pumped about having something to sail and not just paddle around in a kayak around the harbor.
And I am glad to have found this site, sharing projects. Thank you all for the advice and suggestions.
It wont be too long before I am on the ice, lookin for wind, since it will be too cold to work with epoxy or paint.
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Re: How much deck over the cabin do I remove?

I have a used piano you can have as well.

Hey, if you can get a few good years out of her, great. The freeze expansion damage from that penetration is just going to get worse and worse, however. Make sure she is safe. Hopefully, there are no other load bearing attachments anywhere near the weakened deck. Also, a boat that sat for 6 years is very likely to have other needs to be safe and sailable. I hope she doesn't become a money pit, as she is probably worth less than you paid.
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