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  #91  
Old 10-28-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
The conjecture at this point is the gel coat issues are because the plates were not properly attached throughout their span and length. I'm not sure I get that, but there it is.
It sounds like localized hard spots causing point loading - similar to the way bulkheads will cause a visible ridge on the outside of a hull over time if they weren't set on foam or something flexible against the hull before they were glassed in.

Good luck with cleaning up that nasty glass - I don't envy you that job. Keep a powerful vac running near the tool head.
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  #92  
Old 10-28-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

They really didn't want that sucker to come out of there did they Chuck? Great thread, great pics. I'm afraid to show it to my brother, his boat has the same kind of plates.
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  #93  
Old 10-29-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

The chisel is as described, it has one side of the blade sharpened and the opposite side is flat section for pounding on - so it can cut sideways as well as down.
The serrated is to cut i.e. saw. It's a very heavy duty tool I use for taking things apart.
Dewalt makes it as you see it. This and a 1 inch wide thin blade cold chisel did most of the prying chopping, bending and such.

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After seeing the condition of the removed plate replacing chain plates has moved a bit down my priority list but when I do start the project it will be external plates bolted through the old ones. My only question is the number and diameter of bolts I should use? The plates are 3/8" x 2" x 24".
My rigger said "four bolts good, five bolts better", 1/2 inch SS with carriage style heads nicely polished.

Do NOT bolt through the old ones, seriously that makes no sense. You are going to pay premium bucks to put mirror finish plates (1000 or so a plate to get them nice) that have to be bent to the curve of the hull. That will mean chopping up both toe and cap rail also.
Then you are going to drill 5 holes blindly through the boat and at points up to 1/2 of stainless - the condition of which you do not know (after all there must be a problem or why install new plates).

Chop them out, fill and glass / putty smooth and install new plates at 250 each, no horizontal legs, just 2x24 with 5 bolts spaced to miss the rub rail. bolt through them. Cover the back with removable material or at least an access plate so you can inspect the nuts. Once every 10 years loosen it up and check the bolts/replace the butyl.
Oh, and put a weep hole in so that the inevitable leaking water has a place to go intentionally rather than rotting wood that is out of sight.

Just saying, these are nice boats, might as well do them right. I do not ever want to be the 'damn previous owner'.
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  #94  
Old 10-29-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

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Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
The Navy taught me to write in BLUF style - bottom line up front.
Always laughed when I'd see a summary at the end of something that read, "BLUF." Someone didn't get the acronym.
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  #95  
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

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Always laughed when I'd see a summary at the end of something that read, "BLUF." Someone didn't get the acronym.
Just because they taught me the style doesn't mean I use it well
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  #96  
Old 10-29-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

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Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
My rigger said "four bolts good, five bolts better",
Animal Farm reference?
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  #97  
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

nope, he actually said that, in that way.

Then he rephased it - "well, five bolts would be safer".
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Old 10-29-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

Thanks for taking the time to document your work so well.

Chuck you said: "No part of the chain plate actually touched the hull proper - just the three or four layers of glass and resin that where draped over it."

At first I didn't understand the above comment because it looks like the horizontal pieces were directly on the hull. So can I assume that you are referring to the vertical component that is away from the hull the thickness of the horizontal pieces?

Someone mentioned, that their should have been some soft material someplace. Are you still thinking that is important and if so where should it go?

The glass on top of the horizontal and vertical pieces, was it at the same thickness, how thick?

You said the stainless removed looked perfect are you saying, don't hate me for asking, the job was not necessary?

There was some discussion of the cause of the gelcoat cracks, has that ever been successfully figured out?

What do you suspect the purpose of that round bar at the top was? Maybe useful during installation. Seems it wasn't needed for strength.

Sorry about all the questions but enquiring minds etc. etc.
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Last edited by davidpm; 10-29-2013 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 10-30-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

David, something about your questions and comments gives me the feeling that you are looking for some rationale or backing for installing some chains that way - glassed in.

If I am correct, please disabuse yourself of any thoughts along those lines - AFAIK it is THE worst possible method of installing chains that has been developed since the advent of GRP boats.

If anyone knows of a worse method, please chime in here.
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  #100  
Old 10-30-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
Thanks for taking the time to document your work so well.

Chuck you said: "No part of the chain plate actually touched the hull proper - just the three or four layers of glass and resin that where draped over it."

At first I didn't understand the above comment because it looks like the horizontal pieces were directly on the hull. So can I assume that you are referring to the vertical component that is away from the hull the thickness of the horizontal pieces?

Someone mentioned, that their should have been some soft material someplace. Are you still thinking that is important and if so where should it go?

The glass on top of the horizontal and vertical pieces, was it at the same thickness, how thick?

You said the stainless removed looked perfect are you saying, don't hate me for asking, the job was not necessary?

There was some discussion of the cause of the gelcoat cracks, has that ever been successfully figured out?

What do you suspect the purpose of that round bar at the top was? Maybe useful during installation. Seems it wasn't needed for strength.

Sorry about all the questions but enquiring minds etc. etc.
No problem David, that's why I post.

The only portion of the chain plates, vertical and horizontal that actually touched anything was a 1/2 inch or so at the bottom near the cored area of the hull. It was bedded in some time of light gray compound that Dremel'd away easy.

The glass looks to be from 2/8 to 3/16 thick - 3-4 layers and lots of resin - same everywhere. No apparent rhyme or reason. One heavier layer without so much resin at the bottom.

Ha ha ha. Yes, it was not necessary. These plates have and would have stood the test of time. On the other hand now I KNOW - and I'm going to do the rest as well.
With me doing the removal and all the prep for installing the new (just vertical) plates, and a professional install I can get away with 250 for the plates and maybe 10 hours of labor, let's call it 2k. That's cheap for being able to sleep at night somewhere off 'tropical islands'.

At some point I will grind out the primary (pictured) spot of gel coat from the outside in until I run out of crack. I've not removed the plate over it yet - I'm a little leery of taking two plates off on one side quite yet - I've got a 1 mile trip and a haul out yet before they drop the mast.

I think the round bar, and the fact that it was covered in two layers of glass was put there to mess with me personally - I mean they knew I was coming.
I found it by picking out all the 4200, silicone, butyl and other crap from above and pulling prying and scraping until I finally saw shiny bits at the bottom of the opening two inches of toe rail teak down. That and a lot of wiggling and wondering why it was not just falling out literally consumed hours. I'm going to call it a bastard bar even if I find out what it's proper nomenclature is.
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