Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement - Page 11 - SailNet Community
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post #101 of 185 Old 10-30-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

Sounds more like a buggeration bar to me.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #102 of 185 Old 10-30-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

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Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
The only portion of the chain plates, vertical and horizontal that actually touched anything was a 1/2 inch or so at the bottom near the cored area of the hull. It was bedded in some time of light gray compound that Dremel'd away easy.
I feel like a dog with a bone here. I'm trying to get a good mental picture of exactly what it looks like.

I operate under the assumption that whatever is done was done for a reason. The reason may be misguided, maybe wrong, maybe stupid but a reason nonetheless.

So are you telling me that the only the bottom half or less of the bottom horizontal bar was set in some sort of putty?
That would mean the the balance of the horizontal members were floating what like 1/4 to a 3/8 off the hull.?

This actually makes a lot of sense. From a fabrication point of view to make this christmas tree arrangement and have all the horizontal members lay tight to the hull would be very time consuming.

This also explains the bastard bar. It is welded on at an easily referenced point so the whole unit is shoved in from below until the bastard bar bottoms out and the bottom edge of the bottom horizontal member is puttied to the hull and you have your chain plate in positioned. Now just have the junior guy come after you and slap some glass over the whole thing and you are done.

So while the whole thing is evil from a repair point of view it makes sense from a build it quick point of view.

Not unlike hull liners on most production boats. Really stinks when you want to move deck hardware or fix wiring but saves lots of time in building the boat.

Do you think my scenario is plausible?
As to why the bastard bar was so thoroughly buried I've got this vision of junior being told to cover the chain plates so he figured he would really cover them. May not have been an engineering decision.
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It is a lesson about the limitations of wax as an adhesive.
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Last edited by davidpm; 10-30-2013 at 09:25 PM.
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post #103 of 185 Old 10-30-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

sounds like a stopper to me...good post above!
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post #104 of 185 Old 10-30-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

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Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
This also explains the bastard bar. It is welded on at an easily referenced point so the whole unit is shoved in from below until the bastard bar bottoms out and the bottom edge of the bottom horizontal member is puttied to the hull and you have your chain plate in positioned. Now just have the junior guy come after you and slap some glass over the whole thing and you are done.
I think you've got it.

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So while the whole thing is evil from a repair point of view it makes sense from a build it quick point of view.
You've definitely got it.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #105 of 185 Old 10-30-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

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Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
At some point I will grind out the primary (pictured) spot of gel coat from the outside in until I run out of crack. I've not removed the plate over it yet - I'm a little leery of taking two plates off on one side quite yet - I've got a 1 mile trip and a haul out yet before they drop the mast.
I've got this video thing running in my head and I just can't picture a reason for that crack.
You said on a another CP you cut into it and a lot of water ran out.

Maybe on the CP you took apart their was water n their and if froze and cracked the hull then leaked out someplace.
The stainless, one would think would show some signs of being wet for a long time.

Oh I think I read that you didn't open out the one with the crack over it. So when you do we will learn something else.
I hope at least one chainplate is near failure.

The lesson from the Icarus story is not about human failing.
It is a lesson about the limitations of wax as an adhesive.
If you have an engineering problem solve it.

Last edited by davidpm; 10-30-2013 at 10:45 PM.
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post #106 of 185 Old 10-30-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

As far a putting it back together goes I'm still seeing it going back together the same way it was put together with the following small tweaks,

1. The bastard bar is only their as a stopper and is not glued or glassed, doesn't need it.
2. The chain plate vertical is screwed to the horizontal pieces. The horizontal pieces are tapped so no nut is necessary.
3. The glassing of the horizontal pieces is done to leave a chainplate width area clear in the middle.

The only extra work is the drilling and tapping a few screws.
You put it together as a christmas tree and stick it in their and glass it in place.
Now any time you want to pull the chain plate just undo the exposed screws and drop it out. Should take about 10 minutes to pull a plate.
Adjust the width of the horizontals and the number and size of the screws to make sure it is a strong as a weld.

I know some folks have recommended putting in a knee and lots of boats have them but in my imagination I see disadvantages.
1. It is probably more work to do the knee.
2. It may introduce a hard spot on the hull.
3. You will have less flexibility on the cabinetry.
4. You will have some angles to work out if you change the plane of the chainplate
5. You may have to change something on the toe rail.

I'm just paranoid about changing too much on a boat that has done so well for so many years.
One it is always more work than expected due to reengineering.
Two I might not think of something.

The lesson from the Icarus story is not about human failing.
It is a lesson about the limitations of wax as an adhesive.
If you have an engineering problem solve it.
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post #107 of 185 Old 10-31-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

I'm stunned at the amount of water that Chuck says comes out of these pockets.

Just...wow.

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post #108 of 185 Old 11-01-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

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Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
Do you think my scenario is plausible?
.
Exactly.
The implausible part is how the heck that held against the 1000's of pounds of pull.
Fiberglass and poly-resin does not stick to stainless well at all. I did not have to grind it off, I simply pried it off (rather easily actually).
The process to remove a plate was to cut around it, then pop off the glass, then cut through the stainless (simply to make it a manageable size).

I'm going to try and take the next plate out as a single piece.

Unfortunately that is on hold until the spar is dropped because I'd rather drop it with a plan than have it decide to just drop. I'm too chicken to take two shrouds off.

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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

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Originally Posted by BubbleheadMd View Post
I'm stunned at the amount of water that Chuck says comes out of these pockets.

Just...wow.
I will video the next 'virgin' slice.

Lessons learned are opportunities earned.
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post #110 of 185 Old 11-01-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

Based on what you've found... are you going to tackle the other side 'just in case'.. or to match what you're about to create now?

Ron

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".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
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