Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement - Page 13 - SailNet Community
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post #121 of 185 Old 11-04-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

I was surprised to see the "bare" bolt heads too. Perhaps there is a different kind of bolt that will be used, with a head similar to a carriage bolt?

- Jim
Home: Western Philly 'burbs
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post #122 of 185 Old 11-04-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

Chuck,

Did they give you a good explaination as to why there is no backing needed for the bolt heads? Seems like a good way to crack that gelcoat with the load concentrated on such a small area.
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post #123 of 185 Old 11-04-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

Our chain plates use carriage bolts with the square collar removed. No cracking on the gelcoat as they don't have to be that tight. The pull is across the bolt not inline with the head...
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post #124 of 185 Old 11-04-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
Carriage bolts, yes. Backing for the heads- I'm hearing none needed. I thought of brass/bronze squares (done nicely).
I've got no idea about the thoughts and intentions David; what I do know is I wish Irwin had done these 'normally'.
Yes if Irwin had made this easier it would be better. Its too bad they didn't think it through.

The idea of going external creates several problems, in my mind. Every job is a compromise so none of these problems may affect you.

The following are guaranteed:
The new chain plate will have to be bent to follow the curve of the hull and then bedded.
The new chain plate will exit the topsides differently and the toe rail will have to be fixed.
The new chain plate will have external bolt heads that will not be the original look.

The following are just my paranoia but might happen:
The bolt heads may distort the glass or gelcoat
There may be hull distortion due to point loading.
Someone looking to buy your boat may see a non standard repair and be put off from buying the boat.

The option of putting it back together the way it is with optionally machine screwing some of it together to facilitate removal for inspection seems safer and neater to me and when you add up everything maybe not much more work?

Please don't take my comments the wrong way. Your boat, your decision. You have lots of more experienced folks than I advising you. Just putting my internet 2 cents in which is worth probable much less.

The lesson from the Icarus story is not about human failing.
It is a lesson about the limitations of wax as an adhesive.
If you have an engineering problem solve it.

Last edited by davidpm; 11-04-2013 at 02:49 PM.
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post #125 of 185 Old 11-04-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

David, the plates will not be bent, they will be bedded precisely on a curved bed. Theywill come out the same way at the same angle. I can deal with the look. Actually the look tells other owners of Irwin's I've take the time to fix a problem they still have

The other stuff, it could happen. Point loading, I don't think so - when I bed the plates I spread the load plenty with a pad of glass of putty and gook.

The option of putting it back was is a non starter, machine screws and all just makes no sense. I'd be right back where I am with no way to inspect.
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post #126 of 185 Old 11-04-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

Chuck, I think your solution with the carriage bolts and no backing plate on the outside is fantastic.

I sail.
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post #127 of 185 Old 11-18-2013 Thread Starter
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

Update time.
I had to wait until haul out and deck stepping to get back to work removing chain plates.

The second one is now out - this is the starboard upper - it is under this plate that the original gel coat cracking was discovered.
Here's the shots, but to save the drama - no signs of corrosion anywhere. Under the plates, same deal - no sign of any problems.
One big note worthy of remembering -
In all of these pictures I've not done so much as wipe the plates, just shake off the dust from the removal "process".

Full length (minus 1/8 inch - it's easier to remove in pieces)



Closer up to the top - this is where most plates fail


Backside of the top


Backside of the bottom.
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post #128 of 185 Old 11-18-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

those look mighty fine...good on you for doing this preventatitve maintenance...Ill be taking some pics of mine and starting another thread for those interested in islander 36 chainplates and how they fail...

peace
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post #129 of 185 Old 11-18-2013
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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

Chuck, so now the magic question...what caused the crack?

- Jim
Home: Western Philly 'burbs
1980 Allmand 31
1975 Albacore 15


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Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

Probably water expansion, truly, I do not know.

I've already pulled the joinery and wood work off the other side there is evidence of leaking there - and a least one previous owner took out some screws and such to take a look (shame on 'em for not fixing it).

My plan remains unchanged. I will take out the 2 lowers, the 2 uppers and the backstay, and replace them with bolt through plates.
If I find a single one of these plates with corrosion I'll reconsider doing the yoga contortionist and head/locker de-construction and do the upper stays as well. Other wise the uppers will only get a weep hole and inspection port.
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