Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement - Page 15 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree81Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #141  
Old 01-28-2014
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cruising
Posts: 44
Thanks: 4
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Total Chaos is on a distinguished road




I haven't looked closely enough in person on the 38 to tell how similar the replacement might be, but these are examples of the Irwin 65/68.

Last edited by Faster; 01-28-2014 at 06:28 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #142  
Old 01-29-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Beacon, NY
Posts: 2,083
Thanks: 17
Thanked 70 Times in 67 Posts
Rep Power: 8
miatapaul is on a distinguished road
Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloopJonB View Post
In this case, due to the heavy cap rail and rubbing strake, that would NOT be the easiest or simplest method. It would require either complex bending & shaping of the chains or a lot of work cutting slots in the noted trim.

Bolting them to the inside of the hull in their original positions avoids all that. It does involve a lot of ugly cleanup work of the old glass though.

And it avoids the Ugly bit of having the chain plates bolted to the exterior of the hull. I think it looks like a "cheap and easy fix" when on a boat that did not have it originally. It does make them easy to inspect though.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #143  
Old 01-29-2014
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cruising
Posts: 44
Thanks: 4
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Total Chaos is on a distinguished road
Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

You are still talking about adding a backing plate then to the outside of the hull right? Unless you use load distrubting plates like the original and reglass them, you would still need polished plates on the outide of the hull if you use any bolts at all. Am I missing somthing?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #144  
Old 01-29-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans Louisiana
Posts: 2,010
Thanks: 6
Thanked 48 Times in 45 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Stumble is on a distinguished road
Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by miatapaul View Post
And it avoids the Ugly bit of having the chain plates bolted to the exterior of the hull. I think it looks like a "cheap and easy fix" when on a boat that did not have it originally. It does make them easy to inspect though.
That's because it is a cheap fix. I don't like external chainplates on any boat, but if I saw them on a boat that wasn't designed with them I would walk away.

The major problem with moving to external chainplates is that they have a larger failure area than on penetrating ones, and are covered in salt water much more commonly.


It really concerns me that people constantly want to mess with the work of a professional NA in such a substantial way without checking with a qualified expert. Swapping around chainplate locations is like moving around the structual walls of your house. Sure it might be ok, but it wouldn't do it without checking with an architect.
__________________
Greg Rubin
Attorney
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #145  
Old 01-29-2014
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cruising
Posts: 44
Thanks: 4
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Total Chaos is on a distinguished road
Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

The only neg effect moving the chains farther outside is on the ability to close haul, in this case it is only couple inches otherwise the plates are in the same location. The effect on the rig is to actually make it stronger... the base is wider. As to the cosmetics to each his own. The one absolute fact about glassed in plates is that they are 02 starved and water will get in there eventually, 30 years down the road, or 2 and along with that comes crevise corrosion. The only way to inspect these plates is to have gamma radiography done. $1500 just to inspect the plates, hmmm pass.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #146  
Old 01-29-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans Louisiana
Posts: 2,010
Thanks: 6
Thanked 48 Times in 45 Posts
Rep Power: 3
Stumble is on a distinguished road
Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Total Chaos View Post
The only neg effect moving the chains farther outside is on the ability to close haul, in this case it is only couple inches otherwise the plates are in the same location. The effect on the rig is to actually make it stronger... the base is wider. As to the cosmetics to each his own. The one absolute fact about glassed in plates is that they are 02 starved and water will get in there eventually, 30 years down the road, or 2 and along with that comes crevise corrosion. The only way to inspect these plates is to have gamma radiography done. $1500 just to inspect the plates, hmmm pass.
Not quite true.

1) moving chainplates outboard is only stronger if where the new chainplates are attached is at least as strong as where they were. Since very few boats use completely perpendicular spreaders simply moving them further outboard also changes rig geometry. Keeping them inline with the old rig geometry also likely moves the new chainplates to new attachment points relative to hull deck strongpoints.

2) if you think it's difficult to completely waterproof a 2"x3/4" hole, how much more difficult will it be to waterproof the outer edge of a 3'x2" plate with holes drilled in it.

3) dye testing is much cheaper, x-ray testing is also a possibility both at much lower cost. But I agree with you here generally, by the time you go thru the difficulty of removing them it is generally better to just replace them no matter what you find, since these tests don't address work hardening.
davidpm and christian.hess like this.
__________________
Greg Rubin
Attorney
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #147  
Old 01-29-2014
christian.hess's Avatar
"Nubile Southern Sailor"
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Columbus, Ga
Posts: 3,834
Thanks: 102
Thanked 152 Times in 148 Posts
Rep Power: 2
christian.hess is on a distinguished road
Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

x2 above
__________________
Finally sailed!!!!!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Islander 36 refit still going on...

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #148  
Old 01-29-2014
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Cruising
Posts: 44
Thanks: 4
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Total Chaos is on a distinguished road
Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

In this particular case.

1. The exterior plates would be just a strong as the oringal, stronger do to compression as the location on the hull does not change, expect as it is not directly on the inside of the hull, but now directly on the oustside.

2. Rig geometry changes are very miniumal as the new attachement is maybe an inch outboard.

3. The glassed in chain plate is oxygen starved, this combined with moisture is what allows crevice corrosion to occur on the plate. It would be quite fine for an external chain plate to leak as far as the intergety of the plate is concerned, but not so for a glassed in plate. If the internal plate leaks and the moister finds its way into a low oxygen environement that's bad news.

4. Industrial inspection companies are all over, but in the US to inspect our chainplates with xray, really it's gamma ray that is used, ranged between $1100.00 and $1700.00 depending on whether they could do it in a full day or half day all of this done onsight at my location. These are US east coast prices and I check with half a dozen companies.

I talked with two separate surveyors and both were quick to say forget the inspection and just replace them. One surveyor said that on any boat with thirty year old plates he has never seen an radiographic inspection come back that wouldnt recommend replacement anyway... ie don't waste your money.

4. External chainplates can be inspected, the internal, even if bolted on the inside can not with out tearing apart a lot of the interior. This may just be the case on my Irwin 65, but on her they are a serious bugger to get to.

All that being said many boats have the chain plates much farther inboard than on the Irwin. Moving the plates outboard on the hull on these guys could be a bad idea for some of the reasons Stumble mentions above.

Last edited by Total Chaos; 01-29-2014 at 09:42 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #149  
Old 01-29-2014
christian.hess's Avatar
"Nubile Southern Sailor"
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Columbus, Ga
Posts: 3,834
Thanks: 102
Thanked 152 Times in 148 Posts
Rep Power: 2
christian.hess is on a distinguished road
Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

I would never pay to have plates inspected especially at those prices, considering you can make new ones, beefier or not...or improved for less

keep up the good work op
__________________
Finally sailed!!!!!!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Islander 36 refit still going on...

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #150  
Old 01-29-2014
SloopJonB's Avatar
Senior Moment Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 10,821
Thanks: 58
Thanked 52 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 4
SloopJonB will become famous soon enough
Re: Embedded Chain plate maint/replacement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Total Chaos View Post
The only neg effect moving the chains farther outside is on the ability to close haul, in this case it is only couple inches otherwise the plates are in the same location. The effect on the rig is to actually make it stronger... the base is wider. As to the cosmetics to each his own. The one absolute fact about glassed in plates is that they are 02 starved and water will get in there eventually, 30 years down the road, or 2 and along with that comes crevise corrosion. The only way to inspect these plates is to have gamma radiography done. $1500 just to inspect the plates, hmmm pass.
I've seen gamma shots of chains on a big Irwin and they weren't enough to really tell the state of them. You HAVE to remove them to know if they are O/K and I pretty well guarantee that, after 25 or 30 years buried under glass, at least some of them won't be.
christian.hess likes this.
__________________
I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Chain Plate Replacement casey1999 Gear & Maintenance 35 05-21-2013 11:53 PM
chain plate reinforcement UseDaGreyMatter MacGregor 1 12-30-2010 11:05 PM
Chain plate help atlanticcruiser Gear & Maintenance 15 12-20-2010 12:46 PM
Chain Plate (Not) davidpm Gear & Maintenance 2 04-14-2009 06:52 AM
Chain Plate Replacement jsutor Gear & Maintenance 1 04-30-2005 03:40 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:51 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.