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  #31  
Old 10-22-2013
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Re: Islander 36 electric inboard? diy

There was a article in good old boat of a diy in a 30 footer who was happy with the results. I can't remember which issue. I remember him using 48V and solar recharging. He only uses it to get in and out of the harbor in the Northeast U.S.
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  #32  
Old 10-22-2013
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Re: Islander 36 electric inboard? diy

Very cool info here. I like it.
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  #33  
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Re: Islander 36 electric inboard? diy

I saved that GOB issue & just dug it out, May/June 2011
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  #34  
Old 10-22-2013
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Re: Islander 36 electric inboard? diy

Christian, were you are and with what you have at hand, the only power source you could add to the Islander, is an outboard on the transom.
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  #35  
Old 10-24-2013
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Re: Islander 36 electric inboard? diy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaramaz View Post
there are some commercial solutions, like
Products | GreenStar Marine

Their largest engine has been used on boats up to 40 ft.

Major drawback of electrical engines is the difficulty and limitation of energy storage. This leads to a limited range, and to a somewhat lower power compared to diesels. In itself this is not any show stopper as long as one is aware of it - you state you only wnat to use the engine when mooring etc - should work fine then.

/J
Hi, My name is Oscar Théen and I work at GreenStar Marine. I found our company name on this forum and I thought that a short comment would be in place.

When you come to choosing between a traditional diesel solution and an electric solution you must ask yourself what you actually want of your motor/engine. A diesel solution is for some the best choice and the electric one is better for others.

The electric solution is best for those who prioritize high torque, maneuverability, availability, low maintenance, simplicity, quietness etc. The diesel is best for those who prioritize long transportations at high speed.

Pure plugin boats with our systems usually have a calm weather range at 4 knots of around 30 NM. Full speed is usually around 6 knots. Range at full speed and AGM lead batteries is usually around 6 NM.

We have never installed a system in an Islander 36 but we have installed systems in several boats of similar size and weight. For an Islander 36 I would recommend something like:
Greenstar system: GS18
Battery bank: 8 * GS12-100 Deep Cycle AGM lead batteries
Estimated economy speed: 3 ½ knots in 9 ¾ hours
Estimated full speed: 6 knots in 80 minutes

Note 1. Economy speed for the Islander 36 is probably a bit lower than for the average boat. Economy speed can be increased by changing propeller but that will cost thrust. If a bigger propeller, both in terms of pitch and diameter were to be used there is a risk of overheating the motor at full speed.

Note 2. Runtimes in the Islander example are with batteries that are run absolutely flat which is not recommended. This can be done in case of ”emergency” but usually you should not use more than 50 % of this.
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  #36  
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Re: Islander 36 electric inboard? diy

Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenStar View Post
Hi, My name is Oscar Théen and I work at GreenStar Marine. I found our company name on this forum and I thought that a short comment would be in place.

When you come to choosing between a traditional diesel solution and an electric solution you must ask yourself what you actually want of your motor/engine. A diesel solution is for some the best choice and the electric one is better for others.

The electric solution is best for those who prioritize high torque, maneuverability, availability, low maintenance, simplicity, quietness etc. The diesel is best for those who prioritize long transportations at high speed.

Pure plugin boats with our systems usually have a calm weather range at 4 knots of around 30 NM. Full speed is usually around 6 knots. Range at full speed and AGM lead batteries is usually around 6 NM.

We have never installed a system in an Islander 36 but we have installed systems in several boats of similar size and weight. For an Islander 36 I would recommend something like:
Greenstar system: GS18
Battery bank: 8 * GS12-100 Deep Cycle AGM lead batteries
Estimated economy speed: 3 ½ knots in 9 ¾ hours
Estimated full speed: 6 knots in 80 minutes

Note 1. Economy speed for the Islander 36 is probably a bit lower than for the average boat. Economy speed can be increased by changing propeller but that will cost thrust. If a bigger propeller, both in terms of pitch and diameter were to be used there is a risk of overheating the motor at full speed.

Note 2. Runtimes in the Islander example are with batteries that are run absolutely flat which is not recommended. This can be done in case of ”emergency” but usually you should not use more than 50 % of this.

so you are saying that $285 (not greestar, but Power Tech) X 8 = $2280 in batteries alone gives 40 min at 6 knots (so it gets you less than six miles) That is before you even start getting into motor and controller. Now this shows this will not be a cost saver over a rebuild/re-power with Diesel. I really like the idea, and in fact sail on a boat that is electric powered, but done for environmental reasons, not cost. I really like not having to start a combustion engine. Also you say on a mooring, there is no way you are going to charge via solar/wind without spending major dollars. Even on a good charger it will take a couple of days.

Voltage does not matter, it is simple physics.
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  #37  
Old 10-25-2013
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Re: Islander 36 electric inboard? diy

Hi Miatapaul,

In a way you are right that about 800 Ah@12 V takes a Islander 36 only 40 minutes at full speed. If you use your engine that much you probably belong to those who should go for a diesel solution.
Our previous stock of customers don't use their motors that way. What they usually need is enough power to get out of the harbor and start sailing, something to get them out of dangerous situations and last but not least something to get them home when there is no wind.
The first one is easy. It usually takes about 10 minutes at various speeds to get out of the harbor and start sailing. The energy used can easily be regenerated while sailing. With our system and a boat speed of about 5 knots this will take about 45 minutes.
The second one is also easy because those situations usually last from a few seconds up to maybe 10 minutes.
Finally the third one, which is also easy. If weather is absolutely calm then you don't need much energy to drive the boat in 3 ½ knots. For everyday use and the Islander this will work for about 5 hours. Now weather is seldom absolutely calm which mean that you have at least a little bit of wind to sail on. Start the motor at low speed and you will gain a few knots at the same time as energy consumption is very low. I would guess that you in 1 knot of wind would have a boat speed of at least 3 ½ knots and enough energy for at least 15 hours and still have the emergency half of the batteries left…

Worth mentioning is that the Islander 36 is a quite heavy boat where quite a lot of energy is needed to get it moving. A more easily driven boat will get much better performance on the same amount of energy.

The other half of your reply is about money.
In Sweden we are talking about the same money to go from diesel to diesel as when going from diesel to electric. If you start from scratch with an empty hull then going electric is cheaper.
What you mustn't forget is costs for maintenance. In the diesel world you have costs for filters, lubricants, winter conservation and so on. These costs does not exist in the GreenStar world. Therefor I usually say that you should put the cost for batteries in in this maintenance account. Our GS12-100 batteries usually last for about 8 years in a sailboat. In the Islander example you should then put the cost of one battery each year on maintenance account. Compare this to the maintenance cost of the diesel and don't forget to include household and start batteries… Left to compare after this is the cost of bought liters (or gallons) of diesel and bought kWh of electricity...
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  #38  
Old 10-25-2013
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Re: Islander 36 electric inboard? diy

Quote:
Originally Posted by misfits View Post
I saved that GOB issue & just dug it out, May/June 2011
that wouldnt be the guy on the sloop TEAL? WOULD IT? do yo have a lectronic link?

if so this guy sells and uses a 2.2kw motor kit, PLUG AND PLAY this is something Im trying to emulate...

again auxiliary power...not motorsailer

Last edited by christian.hess; 10-25-2013 at 04:49 PM.
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  #39  
Old 10-25-2013
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Re: Islander 36 electric inboard? diy

Quote:
Originally Posted by sony2000 View Post
Christian, were you are and with what you have at hand, the only power source you could add to the Islander, is an outboard on the transom.
well thats what the previous owners started doing cause the old palmer was acting up...its big so I might have to do this fr the meantime while I either save up for a diy electric kit or get to a place where and atomic 4 is available

there is an off center retractable mount...for an outboard...we tried with an 8 yamaha 2 stroke and it was bareley enough againt full ebb...

issue as always with an outboard mount was cavitation and not enough depth...I have been looking at ways to lower the mount more...but the hardest issue is finding a USED long shaft 15hp or so outboard jejeje

thanks
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Old 10-25-2013
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Re: Islander 36 electric inboard? diy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
Christian,


The reality is that diesel fuel is roughly 100 times more energy dense than lead acid batteries, and about 50 times as energy dense as the best (read most expensive) batteries available. So every pound of diesel fuel you replace has to be made up with by 100lbs of batteries.
I know this stumble and I appreciate your input...this is not the root question or theme here...

I do not have the option here in el salvador of going to yanmar or perkins or whatever and asking for a 10k diesel plus installation inboard. i WOULDNT want or need to either...

NOT to mention I dont have diesel compatible tanks, PROP etc...

I also would like to point out that about 75% of islander 36´came with either an atomic 4 gas engine or a palmer p60 gas engine...one rated at 30hp which we all know never happened and the p60 at 22hp! Only very few islanders cam with a 4 107 and I beleive a pathfinder diesel.

and lastly I would like to point out again that cruising speed is not max speed, you never ever ever use a huge diesel at mAx rpm...so even though your mighty westerbeke pumps out 10hp at idle (im guessing around 800rpm at the prop by the time you lose efficiency) cruising speed for you Im guessing again is around 1800-2200...rpms...so your mighty diesel is still at midrange power...meaning a solid 18hp or so...

again my goal is in and out harbor, to help anchor if needed or fight a small current to ge back to the mooring ball...

I have access to a nice portable generator, and I dont see what the inconvenience of that is at all...its a life saver on a cruising boat!!!!! namely to power tools and fix stuff.

again thanks for the feedback
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