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welding and welder options

3K views 23 replies 11 participants last post by  xymotic 
#1 · (Edited)
I have a number of projects I want to do, working on a 4x4 and a small bus, I want to make a trailer and most importantly I have a lot of welding to do on a 75 yr old steel boat.

I'm a newbi weldor, I've used a 110v hobart MIG up til now. I like MIG.

However even in a boatyard, that thing is huge, heavy and unwieldy on the boat, and lacks power for other projects.

I'd like to get a decent welder that I can learn on and grow with, with the idea of being able to do mild, stainless and Aluminium. (up to 1/4" SS)

And eventually I'd like to be able to pack it up and take it on the boat with me.

So here's my problems:

In many ways, I think Oxi/Acetylene would be the best solution. No Power, can cut and weld pretty much everything, cheaper and easier to stow. And if I learned that, it'd be a real skill ;)

But I'm not too enthused about having acetylene on the boat. (but I am thinking I could stow a tank(s) off the stern.


I really like the Miller maxstar or lincoln invertec machines. The size of a toaster and can do stick or tig. I think I'd use tig a lot in my garage, but on the ocean likely stick (wind) But those machines can't do aluminum.:mad: Bu I could show up in a marina and weld 'wherever' and I like that.

A miller Suitcase Mig welder, seems about the easiest to use, but is a little bigger, and can it do Aluminium?

A machine like a Dynasty 200 that can do ac/dc but it's a bit on the big side for stowing on the boat.

And... I'm actually not planning on having a big ole 7k gennie on board. I want to make a small 5hp diesel driving an alternator.

So, do you guys think it's even possible to run a 110 welder off a 3000w inverter? (8-10 6v trojan bank)

Which then brings up the idea of using a 4x4 welder like a premier power unit, but then again it's not going to be able to do aluminum And seems like the worst possible solution for ease of use in all my other projects I want to do around the house before i set sail, cuz before i could even start I'd have to build it and then lug around a motor whenever I want to use it.

So, do you guys have any thoughts, insights or opinions on any of this you can share with me?
 
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#2 ·
Look into the welding capabilities of acetylene alternative fuels.

I do a lot of brazing using Chemtane on a converted oxy/acetylene rig. Chemtane is LP based (but burns more like acetylene) and is a lot safer to handle. It goes into standard LP tanks, which would make it easy to handle on a boat. Since I don't do any welding (just brazing) I don't know if it is suitable.

Wouldn't a small inverter machine like the Miller Dynasty 200 do the trick? It is a TIG machine that can handle aluminum or steel. Since one of the primary welding jobs on a boat would be making new pulpits and railings TIG seems like a much better choice than MIG. It looks like it could even work pretty well for thin tubing on a 115/30A circuit, something that is easy to find at marinas.
 
#5 ·
Look into the welding capabilities of acetylene alternative fuels.

I do a lot of brazing using Chemtane on a converted oxy/acetylene rig. Chemtane is LP based (but burns more like acetylene) and is a lot safer to handle. It goes into standard LP tanks, which would make it easy to handle on a boat. Since I don't do any welding (just brazing) I don't know if it is suitable.

Wouldn't a small inverter machine like the Miller Dynasty 200 do the trick? It is a TIG machine that can handle aluminum or steel. Since one of the primary welding jobs on a boat would be making new pulpits and railings TIG seems like a much better choice than MIG. It looks like it could even work pretty well for thin tubing on a 115/30A circuit, something that is easy to find at marinas.
Yeah the Dynasty is right up there on my list but I'm not sure how 'small' it is.
 
#3 ·
I've carried oxy/ acet tanks on board for years while cruising the north coast. Never had any problems. Just pack out side to use. Most docks supplying 30 amps will likely have both sides of 220 volts .With the designated plug in harness you'd have big volts for real welding.I think many suitcase types are dual voltage any way Most marinas are not insured for this kind of stuff and would be in your face pronto..For regular ac stick welding Brent advocates a jimmied auto alt run off the boats engine. Work well for him.Ask him.
 
#6 ·
The box that it ships in is:
24.3 x 14.3 x 12.0

So it should be about 3-4" smaller than that in each dimension.

It weighs 45lbs. I don't think you are going to find an inverter TIG machine that is too much smaller.
 
#7 ·




On SS and aluminum you can TIG or you can TIG as any other process is just going to make a mess

While you can MIG aluminum it is done with a spool gun as the wire is to soft to be pushed through a normal gun and that would be yet another thing to carry

For the steel hull boat oxy acetylene to cut and stick to weld


While you can oxy acetylene weld it is about the worst choice and best suited for brazing
 
#8 ·
For working on steel it is hard to beat the simplicity and economy of a stick welder. With the right rods stainless and CI can be worked on too.

But for shear versatility a MIG set up with alternative bottles and wire types might be the way to go and buy or rent a stick welder when you come to doing the boat.
 
#10 ·
I don't think that using an inverter as the power source will work too well. Alternating generators struggle to power arc welding equipment that generally have very high inrush currents. I suspect most inverter welders have relatively horrid leading power factors which won't help either. Ring up Lincoln technical support and ask them for final verification. They will have a definitive answer for you.

On a more general note, you need a decent MIG of at least 200A for your auto / trailer / initial boat work. Either get a combo inverter stick/TIG welder as a companion to use once cruising on the boat or trade the MIG for one when the time comes. You might also consider that some combo units now also include a plasma cutting option as well although these will be getting up a bit in physical size. Having said that, if it were me, I'd get a simple inverter stick / scratch start TIG for storing on a boat. This will allow welding of mild and stainless steels with stick (on a side note, I think stainless is easier to weld than mild with stick). For smaller cutting jobs, a thin cutting disk on a 4 1/2" grinder is hard to beat.

Just for interest, Oxy Acetylene welding, while versatile (it can weld and braze just about all metals including aluminium in the right hands) has a lot of disadvantages. The most significant is that it has a very high heat input when fusion welding compared to other processes. This means that materials with high coefficients of expansion like stainless steel and aluminium will distort like crazy unless done with some skill (TIG suffers from this as well since it is "electric oxy"). Stainless steel, in particular does not like to be kept soaking at certain elevated temperatures otherwise it suffers from "carbide precipitation", which is bad (google will explain more on this)
 
#11 ·
I have a Miller Maxstar that I bought when I owned a steel boat, and I love it. I bought a pelican case for it and it now lives in the workroom of our current boat. You cant beat the size, and the thing is a little power house. It can run off of 110 or 220. Supper useful.

(on a side note, I think stainless is easier to weld than mild with stick).
I agree
 
#13 ·
I like Tig for aluminum. You need AC HF to weld aluminum with your Tig rig. SS and CS will do just fine with DC and a scratch start. Tig is the one that can do it all but cost the most needs the best prep and the deposit speed is on the slow side.
Stick is the most bullet proof of the electric heating means in my opinion. I have done cs,ss.and aluminum with good success. You will need to keep the rods dry.
Mig and flux core mig is the king of high deposit speeds. sub arc is the only thing I have done that is faster.
One advantage of oxy ace welding is you will not get a shock in the damp wet environment you wish to work your craft. It is one of the oldest welding methods and is almost like tig and can weld a great many materials gold and silver even ! A fuel gas other than ace can be cleaner when working with some metals. Ace offers more heat so that is why it is a good choice.
My best wishes for you. A little time at a trade school could help you find out what fits your needs and skill. You can use all the machines. Todays machines are truly wonderful.
Many a hope has been dashed by a poor cheap machine.
Good Day, Lou 452
 
#14 ·
Many a hope has been dashed by a poor cheap machine.
Hehe I'm already convinced! Just not sure I want to pack three different ones!

I honestly think one of the little tig/stick toaster sized jobs would be best. But I'm just not sure I want to abandon Aluminum.

Another option I though of last night was maybe buying a cheap used gas generator welder, I could use as a power source.

Something like:
Blue Star 145 DX & 185 DX - Engine Driven Welders - Miller Welding

Once the boat is done, I suppose I could take it apart, take all the panels off and mate the head to a water-cooled diesel. in the engine room. Do you think something like that would be up to fairly heavy full time charging duties as a marine genset? It could drive stick directly or gimme ac to use a mig tig too. Wouldn't take 'that much' more space than I really wanted.
 
#15 · (Edited)
I use a 100 amp dodge alternator, which I paid $25 for in an auto wreckers , driven by a 10 inch pulley off my main engine.I feed the field from the staring battery ,thru a toggle switch and a 50 watt 12 volt car headlight bulb, to reduce the input to something which wont fry the field windings. To avoid frying the diodes, I put a 120 volt, 60 amp light bulb betweeen the negative and positive output.
You need a lot of RPM , hence the 10 inch pulley. I once had a commercialy buiult welder which used a 3800 rpm wisconsin gas engne and still a 10 ich pulley. That was a lot of RPM! I control the output with the throttle.
I find I get about three years out of the internal diodes which come with the alternator. When they go, I use a much bigger set of external diodes in aluminiumn plates as heat sinks , which never get warm. Dont have the numbers with me at the moment ,but they are common. I have only done, stainless, steel and aluminiumn stick welding with it, but I understand the high frequency of this setup may work well with TIG or MIG.
I have built several anchor winches and stainless woodstoves with it , from scratch, in my cockpit ,while at anchor. The output from it also runs my 120 volt angle grinder and other 120 volt power tools.
I couldn't fit it in my engine compartment, so I made a removeable panel on the side of the engine compartment to run a V belt thru, and mounted the alternator outside the engine compartment. I also mount my watermaker pump there.
 
#16 ·
I use a 100 amp dodge alternator, which I paid $25 for in an auto wreckers , driven by a 10 inch pulley off my main engine.I feed the field from the staring battery ,thru a toggle switch and a 50 watt 12 volt car headlight bulb, to reduce the input to something which wont fry the field windings. To avoid frying the diodes, I put a 120 volt, 60 amp light bulb betweeen the negative and positive output.
You need a lot of RPM , hence the 10 inch pulley. I once had a commercialy buiult welder which used a 3800 rpm wisconsin gas engne and still a 10 ich pulley. That was a lot of RPM! I control the output with the throttle.
I find I get about three years out of the internal diodes which come with the alternator. When they go, I use a much bigger set of external diodes in aluminiumn plates as heat sinks , which never get warm. Dont have the numbers with me at the moment ,but they are common. I have only done, stainless, steel and aluminiumn stick welding with it, but I understand the high frequency of this setup may work well with TIG or MIG.
I have built several anchor winches and stainless woodstoves with it , from scratch, in my cockpit ,while at anchor. The output from it also runs my 120 volt angle grinder and other 120 volt power tools.
I couldn't fit it in my engine compartment, so I made a removable panel on the side of the engine compartment to run a V belt thru, and mounted the alternator outside the engine compartment. I also mount my watermaker pump there.
Thanks Brent, I have considered it. One thing I really like about the premier power unit is that they've wired in a switch to flip between regular charging and welding. I know this crap ain't rocket surgery but I have no clue how they do that.

But also, how do you adjust it when you're welding? Just seat of your pants looking at the beads? I'm still a total newb and can't really tell what I'm doing yet. Definitely need some classes just don't want to go for a year to be a commercial welder :)
 
#18 ·
I have always thought I might try using the welder as the boats inboard engine ? If I ever get a big boat. They have 2- 4 and 6 cly gas or diesel air and water cooled. I would think adding a pto for the prop a gear box for reverse, and a throttle control is all one might need ? You would use less space than having an inboard engine and large welder on the boat. I have not seen or heard of any one doing this. Seems like you would have a lot of extra power generation ?
The small toaster size welders have come a long way from past years. Some are very capable of making x-ray welds. They will burn 3/32 7018 with 110 voltage at a normal pace. You can max them out.. kick the breaker if you push but with a large 100 power cord they do a good job. 1/8 rod is to much for the suitcase welders I have seen. Light easy to use. When you plug them in they know if they are using 110 or 220 Smart machines !
The thing I do not like to see is a machine that would not even be a good battery charger giving a new person the idea that welding is not something they are capable of doing !
Just please everyone remember water and electricity bad ! I will check again Monday if I remember. I think the safety men said 21 mill a volts can kill. I have had some good jolts with just sweaty Tig gloves. My fitter will keep two or three pair of gloves on a humid 85 + degree day . Wet and welding not good. Some where out there is an Underwater welder ? You are looking to work near a water hazard. It is done but lets plan to be as safe as we can be doing it.
I just have a Catalina-22 so my plan is to weld at work and sail on the water.
I am enjoying this thread !
Good day , Lou 452
 
#19 ·
Brent I would sure like to try your set up. It sounds very interesting ! I have not seen this. I wonder if you could rig a foot pedal for a tig rig ?
I once worked with a mechanic and we tacked a small emergency repair with a bank of batteries it was not pretty or quality work but it was like innovative !
You can also charge batteries and jump start engines This has a lot of danger ! I saw a battery blow up. You just do not do that kind of stuff any more.
Good day, Lou 452
 
#21 ·
Check out the Ready Welder. I use one on my service truck. It's a 24v DC Mig spool gun. Power is from two deep cycle batteries, or three for more heat. Uses shielded wire or plain wire with a co2 bottle. Can do SS or AL with proper wire and gas mix. Gun and cables fit into a briefcase. Welding time varies with battery condition. Took a couple days to weld up a frame for the dump bed on a pickup truck, discharging and recharging batteries. Fixing brackets and other small projects can be done right away.
I took a welding class at our local Community College.
Best wishes however you go.
 
#24 ·
I've been looking at them for a while. I'm thinking it would be a lot more useful just as a spool gun powered by a regular welder. I've welded with batteries before... Just not to thrilled with the whole concept I guess. I think it'd be cool if I just wanted to repair stuff on the boat. But I actually need to fabricate some stuff at home first.

When you say you use it on your service truck, are you giving it commercial everyday kind of use?
 
#22 ·
My dodge alternator is pretty small, less than the size of a six pack of beer.150 amp alternators are not much bigger. Nice to be able to fabricate anything I need, out of scrap stainless, anywhwere , on board, while at anchor.
 
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