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  #11  
Old 11-12-2013
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Re: should I replace my standing rigging myself

One more thing, if you're looking for very low stretch sheets, go with vectran. PBO is way too expensive, and standing rigging is going Gucci with carbon cable.

Vectran, however, doesn't like UV, so do not plan on stripping it.
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  #12  
Old 11-12-2013
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Re: should I replace my standing rigging myself

Most rigging shops nowadays use machine swaging which is cheap, and dangerous crap compared to the do it yourself options (nicopress, eye splices, hi-mod terminals, etc.)

I know they work if done properly and inspected/replaced regularly but it just drives me crazy (as an engineer) to put stainless into a form where it holds the metal inside a moist oxygen free pocket ripe for crevice corrosion, and exits at an abrupt edge where it will work harden.

Whenever I look at derelict boats in the marina, the ones with neglected nicopress rigs are still up, and the ones with old swages are dimasted, with either cracks in the swages or broken strands sticking out right where they were work hardened.

My newly purchased boat has good condition machine swage rigging, and I'll be replacing them with hi-mod terminals anyway for peace of mind.

Last edited by casioqv; 11-12-2013 at 03:41 PM.
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  #13  
Old 11-12-2013
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Re: should I replace my standing rigging myself

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumble View Post
This is a perfect example of a professional not understanding new materials. Dux is wholy unsutable for sheets, and most working lines onboard because it is incredibly stiff, and requires bending radiuses more like wire than traditional line. It is however perfect for rigging, thou unlike wire which is sized for strength, Dux rigging is sized to control creep.

The Open 60's that are using Dux rigging are putting 50,000psi of hydrolic compression on their masts and it's working fine.
I think I may be getting some mechanical creep in my own backstay. Most of it is in the regular dyneema that I've got spliced into the 48:1 control lines, but there is a wee bit of creep in Dux, and that is why I think riggers may shun the stuff. As long as you're aware of that, I think you could adjust it frequently, and it should last a long time once it's set. And yes, to think you could use Dux for sheets or halyards is silly. On first inspection, you'd know right away that it wouldn't work.

Last edited by Irunbird; 11-12-2013 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 11-12-2013
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Re: should I replace my standing rigging myself

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Originally Posted by Irunbird View Post
I think I may be getting some mechanical creep in my own backstay. Most of it is in the regular dyneema that I've got spliced into the 48:1 control lines, but there is a wee bit of creep in Dux, and that is why I think riggers may shun the stuff. As long as you're aware of that, I think you could adjust it frequently, and it should last a long time once it's set. And yes, to think you could use Dux for sheets or halyards is silly. On first inspection, you'd know right away that it wouldn't work.
Irunbird,

We are Farr off topic...

Anyway, what load are you carrying on your backstay, and what size Dux are you using. Generally standing rigging is sized to result in 1/8" a year of creep. Assuming even a moderately reasonable rigging set up the rig should be able to account for this creep easily.

As an example 7mm Dux has a breaking strength of ~15,000lbs, and would generally be used to replace 1/4 wire with a breaking strength of ~8,000lbs. But at reasonable pretensions is just a fraction larger 10% the weight! and will creep in the .1"/year range.
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  #15  
Old 11-13-2013
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Re: should I replace my standing rigging myself

Farr? Actually, the topic was originally about replacing shrouds- I was just correcting what I had originally suggested. I have no idea what the load is on my backstay, because I've never measured it. It's gotta be huge, though- 48:1 on a double spreader rig. The size of SK75 is indeed 7mm, and there definitely is a small amount of creep, since I can now easily reach the thimble with the backstay cascade that I regularly connect/disconnect when hoisting the boat out of the water each time we sail. I'm guessing the creep is minimal- probably about 1/2" (guessing) for the 30' or so of Dux that goes up to the masthead crane. I've sailed quite a bit in the upper medium wind range (my own term, but around 15-20 mph) and store the boat with the backstay tensioned about 50% to steady the rig- the idea being to get the system to completely set itself. I've already had to shorten one of the braided dyneema lines in the backstay cascade, and I'm about to do another to regain purchase that was lost in dyneema stretch as well as that tiny bit of creep further up in the Dux. My point was- that if he uses Dux (or NE's version of SK75), he avoids the cost of all those fittings (which I just replaced on my own boat this year- they are the main cost of replacing standing rigging), then he could use Dux-- he'll just have to adjust it after a few times out. On a 26' boat, that is an attractive alternative and I'd probably consider it for lake sailing.

Last edited by Irunbird; 11-13-2013 at 08:20 AM. Reason: topic clarification
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Old 11-13-2013
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Re: should I replace my standing rigging myself

Your least expensive option would probably be to remove your existing rigging and send it off to someone like RiggingOnly or Defender to have new shrouds and stays made up to match. The do-it-yourself fittings are expensive, and you'll probably end up spending more (and still having to do the work yourself) compared to having an online rigger make them up for you.
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Old 11-13-2013
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Re: should I replace my standing rigging myself

Boyer,

If your boat has been a fresh water boat, and already has nico-press I'd hazzard a guess that the rigging is not original and has already been replaced.

That said, I doubt it needs to be replaced, most riggers I've talked to would likely give it a pass - after and inspection (which is less expensive than replacing).

I'm doing my rigging this year - even tho the inspection of the 28 year old stuff found not a single problem.
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Old 11-13-2013
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Re: should I replace my standing rigging myself

Quote:
Originally Posted by chucklesR View Post
Boyer,


I'm doing my rigging this year - even tho the inspection of the 28 year old stuff found not a single problem.
I replaced mine when the boat was 30 years old, and also had no signs of needing to be replaced. People here said to replace every 10 years, so I replaced them. It looks like the rigging is way oversize and or over built, like everything was done back then. I lost one of my chain plates in a 30+ wind and did not know it till the next day!

Edit: Christian.hess...I used Rigging Only http://www.riggingonly.com/ as well. They really know their stuff.
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Last edited by Delta-T; 11-14-2013 at 06:42 PM.
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  #19  
Old 11-13-2013
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Re: should I replace my standing rigging myself

im doing mine as we speak here in el salvador...I have taken down measured and reinstalled the stays Ill be replacing

my intermediate stays have cracked swages, banana shaped and my original closed turnbuckles(on many 70s boats) have crevice corrosion and cracks

now while I do have an issue with these stupid closed turnbuckles I dont have any issue with correctly installed swages, and most mechanical terminations...my boat currently has norsemans on rigging already replaced by p.o.

I will be using rigging only too...

while Im at it ill be replacing chainplates too

I had 1 cracked forward chainplate and one main chainplate that is pitted but has not failed

one would think this boat was either raced really hard or came this close to a dismasting, if I have a chance Ill post pics of the cracked swages! scary as hell!

whatever the case maybe Im replacing pertinent items that need most attention first.

rigging is most definetly one of those DIY jobs that you can take pride in...

cheers
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