Ranger 23 Keel Wobble Advice - SailNet Community
 8Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 29 Old 11-20-2013 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Jersey City
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Ranger 23 Keel Wobble Advice

I posted the following post in the Ranger section however have not received any feedback, therefore, I was thinking that I posted it in the wrong place (I'm new). Any advice that you can give would be greatly appreciated!

I have a 1973 Ranger 23. I love the boat and have sailed it many times and many miles. I keep it in the New York Harbor (Jersey City Side) and sail in the harbor as well as some inshore coastal sailing (inside of 15 miles).

I pulled this boat this week and found that the keel has about 1 to 2 inches of play in it. Quick overview:
1. The bolts are tight and in good shape.
2. The keel to hull joint it sound, with no cracks.
3. There is no leakage in the keel sump.
4. When the keel is moved, the hull flexes for 12 to 18 inches on either side of the keel.

I called several reputable fiberglass people in the area and no one is interested in looking at the boat. A suggestion that I received was to enjoy the boat until it starts leaking.

Therefore, I have three questions:
1. Does this sound like good advice (could this be dangerous)?
2. Is this a common issue (not a lose keel, but a flexing hull causing the keel to wobble)?
3. If I were to endeavor to fix this (cut out the floor, grind out and rebuild 1 inch of new glass across the inside of the hull/add a few stringers and rebuild the cabin floor) would this work, or simply crack/break the first time I hit a large wave/was knocked down?

Any advice that you could give. Thanks again!
markdthorne is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 29 Old 11-20-2013
Just another Moderator
 
Faster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: New Westminster, BC
Posts: 16,534
Thanks: 104
Thanked 310 Times in 300 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Ranger 23 Keel Wobble Advice

Have you had opportunity to compare with other R 23 owners? How much force does it take to get the 'wobble'.. a couple of inches of movement sounds alarming but without knowing the construction details of the central part of the hull/bilge it's difficult to say.

From your description this is all 'hull flex' rather than any looseness at the hull/keel joint.. so it begs the question as to whether this boat has sustained damage somehow that weakened the hull, of if this is indeed 'normal' for the type.

I know that my brother had a Ranger 28 years ago.. there were no floors (crossbeams) or stringers (longitudinals) in that hull, the cabin sole was essentially the inside of the hull itself - I can't say we ever noticed that issue - but don't recall looking for it either....

Ron

1984 Fast/Nicholson 345 "FastForward"

".. there is much you could do at sea with common sense.. and very little you could do without it.."
Capt G E Ericson (from "The Cruel Sea" by Nicholas Monsarrat)
Faster is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 29 Old 11-20-2013 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Jersey City
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Ranger 23 Keel Wobble Advice

Thanks for the reply!

I have searched for other R23 owners and have found examples of leaks, and keels that needed to be re-bedded, but not a hull a flex like this.

To make the keel move, it does not take much. Once you get the 1500# keel moving it shakes on its own.

The R23 was not made with stringers, however, it does have a cabin sole. When riding in the cabin in choppy conditions you can feel the cabin sole flex.

The tone of your comment is consistent with my general sense of caution. Just wanted to see what other (more experienced) sailors had to say.

Thanks again!
christian.hess likes this.
markdthorne is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 29 Old 11-20-2013
Tartan 27' owner
 
CalebD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 4,754
Thanks: 4
Thanked 107 Times in 99 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Ranger 23 Keel Wobble Advice

Hi Markdthorne,

I keep my boat 25 nm up the Hudson from you (Nyack). We used to race against a Ranger 23' who kept us on our toes. Nice boat for it's size.

Sorry to hear about your hull/keel flexing. Obviously not an ideal situation.
I'm not a naval architect but I think your 3rd option (stiffening inside the hull) is the only way to really address this. Perhaps a naval architect like Bob Perry will drop into render an expert opinion.
If you do nothing about this you have your option #1. I think the answer to #2 is that older boats are more likely to reach this state.

As for getting a reputable fiberglass person to work on it, good luck! For starters it is much more difficult to do epoxy work when it is cold (< 50F) outside. For another, most people who do this charge more than you will want to pay - could cost more than you paid for your boat to fix this right.

If you really like the boat it might be worth trying to fix this yourself. Epoxy work is not rocket science but it is time consuming.

I live across the river (Hudson) from where you keep your boat so I could come over to meet you and have a look at your hull/keel situation, if you like.

I'm going to guess that most other responders will say: "ditch the boat for a newer one".

"The cure for anything is salt water~ sweat, tears, or the sea." ~Isak Denesen

Everybody has one:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
CalebD is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 29 Old 11-20-2013
Frozen Member
 
AlaskaMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 564
Thanks: 25
Thanked 20 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Ranger 23 Keel Wobble Advice

Just a total naive comment from me. Our boat, an M25 specifically warns against letting the keel "hang" from the boat when out of the water. (It is a swing so not exactly the same of course) It was designed to hold the weight of the keel in the water, not on the trailer or slings as it distorts the hull and would swing side to side (rather than up and down as designed). Not sure, but is it possible that the Ranger is the same and was not built up to handle the keel hanging when the boat is out if the water? Rather it was meant for the keel to rest on the ground?

EDIT: Something tells me that I am wrong on this as I looked up some pics of Ranger 23s on trailers and it "appears" that the keel is not resting on the trailer but is suspended. If that is normal, then the wobble wouldn't be.

Last edited by AlaskaMC; 11-20-2013 at 07:09 PM.
AlaskaMC is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 29 Old 11-20-2013 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Jersey City
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Ranger 23 Keel Wobble Advice

CalebD,

Thank you for your kind offer to have a look. I may want to take you up on your offer. My treat at the Taqueria!

The funny thing is that this is the same boat (So you know why I like it, meticulously maintained, great woodwork, nicely rigged, and lots of character)

I would be very interested in what you think. I will PM you about getting together.

Thanks!
markdthorne is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 29 Old 11-20-2013
Senior Member
 
lillia28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Central New Jersey, sailing on the Navesink River and Sandy Hook Bay mostly.
Posts: 113
Thanks: 3
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Ranger 23 Keel Wobble Advice

Mark,
I've seen one other boat that sounds like what you are describing. Is the hull cored? I am just south of you, Sandy Hook, and second Caleb, I can take a look, if you like. If its a cored hull, I"d guess delamination of the core, but I'm sure you know that. Is there a Ranger owners club or such? The other boat was a seafarer. It was on stands, and the hull flex allowed it to rock back and forth as you walked on it. I didn't like the boat enough to look any further.
Lou
lillia28 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 29 Old 11-20-2013 Thread Starter
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Jersey City
Posts: 9
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Ranger 23 Keel Wobble Advice

Lou,

That makes sense, the R23 however, is not cored. If you are ever in the area, (we are a ways from sandy hook) let me know, I would greatly appreciate any advice that you could give. I'll PM you.

Mark
markdthorne is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 29 Old 11-20-2013
Senior Member
 
lillia28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Central New Jersey, sailing on the Navesink River and Sandy Hook Bay mostly.
Posts: 113
Thanks: 3
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Ranger 23 Keel Wobble Advice

Mark,
there's a ranger 23 yahoo group: Ranger 23 sailboat association. They might have some experience.
Lou
lillia28 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 29 Old 11-20-2013
Senior Member
 
lillia28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Central New Jersey, sailing on the Navesink River and Sandy Hook Bay mostly.
Posts: 113
Thanks: 3
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Ranger 23 Keel Wobble Advice

Quote:
Originally Posted by markdthorne View Post
Lou,

That makes sense, the R23 however, is not cored. If you are ever in the area, (we are a ways from sandy hook) let me know, I would greatly appreciate any advice that you could give. I'll PM you.

Mark
I commuted to EWR for years! Jersey City is a breeze!
L
lillia28 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ranger 23 Keel Wobble Advice markdthorne Ranger 0 11-15-2013 09:34 AM
Catalina 22 Swing Keel wobble FlyingScot255 Gear & Maintenance 8 09-16-2012 11:54 AM
1973 Ranger 26 Keel Bolts Fstbttms Ranger 1 08-22-2012 10:28 PM
Ranger 29, keel flexing? flo617 Gear & Maintenance 2 05-05-2010 09:15 PM
Ranger 23 Keel Bolts Torq Specs newuser Gear & Maintenance 2 04-21-2003 08:43 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome