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  #31  
Old 11-24-2013
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Re: loose footed main

Dave.. do you have a cunningham cringle?? you might get away with jamming the cunningham on for now too...
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  #32  
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Re: loose footed main

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Why?? ... Actually I think it was Jeff H who said there was no difference, and I'd be concerned about disagreeing there too..
Jeff H was talking about mainsails with an attached shelf-foot. They were previously used mostly by racers, and many cruisers didn't know there was such a thing. The shelf foot enabled a racer to create a very deep draft for very light air. A mainsail with a shelf foot made the boat faster in light air, but it didn't make it any faster in 8-15 kt winds. The attached foot mainsails that came with most sailboats in the past didn't have such a deep shelf foot. A modern, loose-footed mainsail enables the sail to be given a very deep draft, by easing the outhaul, similar to the shelf-footed mainsails. Thus, it gives you the advantages, in light air, that you could only have gotten in the past with a shelf-footed mainsail. But, when trimmed for 8-15 kt winds, a loose-footed mainsail doesn't have any more sail area or better shape than an old shelf-footed mainsail, and isn't any faster.

Thus, what Jeff was saying, and I agree, is that, if you have a mainsail in good condition with an attached shelf foot, it can be expected to perform about as well overall as a new loose-footed mainsail made of the same fabric. However, a loose-footed mainsail is better than the attached-footed mainsails that used to be provided as standard, original equipment on most sailboats, because it has a broader range of adjustability, which is helpful in light air.

Jeff H was comparing an attached, shelf-footed mainsail with a modern, loose-footed mainsail. He wasn't saying that the old, standard-equipment attached footed mainsail is the equal of a modern, loose-footed mainsail.
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Old 11-24-2013
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Re: loose footed main

Hi, well Because you guys asked . First off My boat is a Westsail 28 , it already has a lot of wood on it . Like cap rails , bow sprit , companion way , turtle , name boards belaying pins , wood shell turning blocks . It is Cutter rigged and we run a staysail boom that I fashioned out of Doug Fir . I laminated it out of three pieces and it is solid . It's a little on the small diameter side , so I watch for any bending . I'm sure there is bending but none that I can see, by the way the staysail is loose footed . Also a friend of mine made for us a down wind pole . He made it by the bird mouth construction method out of Doug Fir. It is tapered at each end and it is hollow , a work of art . So the last part is the boom . My friend has built booms before and boats for that matter he wants to build it the Herreshoff method and that is boxed and hollow . I understand your questioning wood , I most likely will not gain performance or strength . My maintenance and costs go up , and I will always be thinking is that thing bending ? It's really all about the boat lends it's self to the wood thing . Of coarse the boat has to be safe , the staysail boom has been on there for about 15 yrs . and shows no sing of problems . So to answer your question as to why ? Just a personal choice .
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Re: loose footed main

Hey Sailormon check this out , my boat a W28 came with a shelf foot main (back in late 70's) . When I first saw it I had no idea what it was and was told by the sail maker that it would improve on light air performance . I still have that sail, it is on a track. So question is would it be ok to loose foot it ?
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Re: loose footed main

In response to the question 'Why wood?'

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Originally Posted by Markwesti View Post
Hi, well Because you guys asked . First off My boat is a Westsail 28 , it already has a lot of wood on it ........ So to answer your question as to why ? Just a personal choice .
Aah.. keeps things in character.. but then I have to ask - do you already have a wooden mast?

So as to the wood boom/outhaul/loose foot equation you could add a short track as PaulK described, but that would require fasteners, and all fasteners are eventually water penetration points, etc etc...

I think the clew strap could work for you, but will be hard on the varnish unless you add a wear plate under the boom. Here's an example:



You'll also benefit from a multi part tackle on the outhaul.. these are usually hidden inside the boom - will there be room for that inside your hollow boom? (small lines and blocks would be fine here, esp with dyneema) Like so:

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Last edited by Faster; 11-24-2013 at 02:08 PM.
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Re: loose footed main

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Originally Posted by Markwesti View Post
Hey Sailormon check this out , my boat a W28 came with a shelf foot main (back in late 70's) . When I first saw it I had no idea what it was and was told by the sail maker that it would improve on light air performance . I still have that sail, it is on a track. So question is would it be ok to loose foot it ?
I wouldn't use it loose-footed, because you wouldn't gain anything by doing it that way. It was designed to have an attached foot, and, in light air, it has about the same range of adjustability as a loose-footed mainsail. I expect it also has a flattening reef, that enables you to quickly and easily eliminate that deep pocket in the foot, when the wind pipes up. If you fly it and use it the way it was designed to be used, it should provide about the same performance overall as a modern, loose-footed mainsail, making allowances, of course, for the sail's age.
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Re: loose footed main

Btw internal out hauls are one of my favorite places to use really small line spliced onto a larger diameter tail. The internal line can be 1/8 (really 7/64) which allows you to use extremely small blocks, making them fit and run better. It's only the last few feet that need to be sized to grab.

I recently had to replace a friend's outhaul that kept sticking. When we opened it up the problem was the 3/8" amsteel that was too big for the blocks. Why he needed a 20,000lbs breaking strength outhaul is beyond me.
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  #38  
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Re: loose footed main

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Originally Posted by Sailormon6 View Post
I wouldn't use it loose-footed, because you wouldn't gain anything by doing it that way. It was designed to have an attached foot, and, in light air, it has about the same range of adjustability as a loose-footed mainsail. I expect it also has a flattening reef, that enables you to quickly and easily eliminate that deep pocket in the foot, when the wind pipes up. If you fly it and use it the way it was designed to be used, it should provide about the same performance overall as a modern, loose-footed mainsail, making allowances, of course, for the sail's age.
All true... If you did want to 'convert', though, it wouldn't be expensive to have a sailmaker cut off the 'shelf' and refinish the foot for loose use... we've had that done ourselves in the past.
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Re: loose footed main

Hi Ron thanks for that post with the graphics . To answer , no I don't have a wood mast ( but I can still wish ) . Something like that would to much money . I agree with the thought on the water pen . on the fasteners . I like the strap at the clew . And yes the multi part tackle is what I want to do . I helped a friend do that once, inside a Alum. boom . My boom right now has that on the out side . It would be cool to do it inside . Lastly I can see where I'm starting to sound like a old tradition type that only likes old stuff . I'm really not that way , OK here's what I'd do if I had money . I would have that mast made up out of carbon fiber . But I would paint it to look like wood !

Last edited by Markwesti; 11-24-2013 at 02:37 PM.
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