Building an emergency rudder- 2 questions; - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 
  #1  
Old 12-08-2013
Irunbird's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 278
Thanks: 6
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 6
Irunbird is on a distinguished road
Building an emergency rudder- 2 questions;

Hi, all- I'm building this using panels of closed cell foam (Divinycell) and I've managed to sandwich three layers (1/2" thick and 12" x 60" width x length) and I'm not using a vacuum bag- just placing two long board with lots of weight on top, all of this laying on my garage floor in lieu of using sand bags as demonstrated on the Jamestown distributors videos. Anyway, since plenty of epoxy squishes out along the sides, I laid wax paper down, thinking that would work to keep it from adhering to extraneous surfaces, and it kind of does, kind of doesn't. I checked on it about 4 hours into the cure (using West System's slow hardener) and it still sticks.

Question 1: would using Saran wrap work better? I've also heard about using hair spray, but I'd be worried about not doing a sufficient enough job getting all the hair spray off and preventing a good bond when I wrap this thing with more cloth and epoxy resin.

Question 2: thinking about tiller options. I'm wanting to use aluminum tubing, and reading this: Guide to Buying Aluminum Online | Online Metals Guide to Selecting Metals for Your Project and here is where some selection comes in- I'm guessing that effective dimensions would be maybe 1/8" thick tubing, 1-3/4" outside diameter for a tiller that would be about 6 feet long, but I'd rather not just guess at this...

If anyone has any experience, especially with this last question, I'd certainly appreciate a little advice! This is for an Olson 30 (~3600 lb displacement), but my rudder is being designed more along the size of a J24 blade (which is approximately 3/4th the size of the Olson's).

Ray
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 12-08-2013
Alex W's Avatar
always busy with sailing
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,075
Thanks: 2
Thanked 121 Times in 116 Posts
Rep Power: 2
Alex W is on a distinguished road
Re: Building an emergency rudder- 2 questions;

You could measure the tubing used for emergency tillers on wheel boats. Your guess of 1-3/4" by 1/8" wall sounds similar to what my Pearson 28-2 (twice the displacement of your Olson 30) uses, so that should be more than enough.

If you can figure out the max load on the rudder head you can also use beam deflection calculations to figure out the appropriate tiller tubing size.
__________________
boats that I sail on regularly: Pearson 28-2, Rondar 505, Yankee 30, Blanchard Junior
Seattle, WA
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 12-08-2013
deniseO30's Avatar
Move over Joan Rivers!
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bristol pa
Posts: 5,874
Thanks: 51
Thanked 72 Times in 64 Posts
Rep Power: 9
deniseO30 will become famous soon enough deniseO30 will become famous soon enough
Re: Building an emergency rudder- 2 questions;

wax paper as you found out is not good in contact with epoxy glue.. you did thicken the epoxy right? Anyway, polyethylene, like contractor trash bags, doesn't stick to epoxy.
__________________
Denise, Bristol PA, Oday 30. On Tidal Delaware River, Anchor Yacht Club. New Website!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

my current "project"!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 12-08-2013
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,011
Thanks: 0
Thanked 64 Times in 55 Posts
Rep Power: 7
mitiempo will become famous soon enough mitiempo will become famous soon enough
Re: Building an emergency rudder- 2 questions;

Saran wrap won't work as it is too thin and weak. Thicker plastic is available by the foot in any hardware store and works well.
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 12-08-2013
hellosailor's Avatar
Plausible Deniability
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,442
Thanks: 1
Thanked 76 Times in 74 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
Re: Building an emergency rudder- 2 questions;

There's all sorts of "wax" paper sold. For cooking, baking, "butcher's" freezer paper...Whatever you use, there's a chance that some of it will adhere to the material or contaminate it with wax. Assume there is contamination and always clean before new bonding.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 12-08-2013
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,011
Thanks: 0
Thanked 64 Times in 55 Posts
Rep Power: 7
mitiempo will become famous soon enough mitiempo will become famous soon enough
Re: Building an emergency rudder- 2 questions;

I have been using epoxy for over 25 years on various boat projects. Thicker plastic, say the thickness of a ziploc bag, works well and epoxy doesn't stick to it. There will not be any residue left on the epoxy surface from plastic as there can be from wax paper. On some occasions I have filled a surface with thickened epoxy and taped plastic over it to keep the shape and when it is removed there is virtually no sanding required.

You can download free the West Epoxy use guides here - full of good tips.
WEST SYSTEM | Use Guides
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 12-08-2013
hellosailor's Avatar
Plausible Deniability
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,442
Thanks: 1
Thanked 76 Times in 74 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
Re: Building an emergency rudder- 2 questions;

The weird thing with epoxy and tapes, is that if you put clear packing tape or any type of duct tape over epoxy, before it sets, it bonds incredibly well to the tape. I'd have thought it would just bond to the adhesive, leaving it bonded, well, like the tape had been stuck down on hardened epoxy. Nope. Damn near permanent. Who'da thought?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 12-08-2013
deniseO30's Avatar
Move over Joan Rivers!
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bristol pa
Posts: 5,874
Thanks: 51
Thanked 72 Times in 64 Posts
Rep Power: 9
deniseO30 will become famous soon enough deniseO30 will become famous soon enough
Re: Building an emergency rudder- 2 questions;

for small glue up. epoxy or wood glues.. and polyeth cutting board is handy
__________________
Denise, Bristol PA, Oday 30. On Tidal Delaware River, Anchor Yacht Club. New Website!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

my current "project"!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 12-08-2013
mitiempo's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Victoria B.C. Canada
Posts: 7,011
Thanks: 0
Thanked 64 Times in 55 Posts
Rep Power: 7
mitiempo will become famous soon enough mitiempo will become famous soon enough
Re: Building an emergency rudder- 2 questions;

I agree, anything plastic works, as long as it is strong enough to be removed without tearing. Saran wrap isn't strong enough. The tools to work epoxy, from containers to mix it in to putty knife type products are all plastic and very re-usable.
__________________
Brian
Living aboard in Victoria Harbour
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 12-08-2013
deniseO30's Avatar
Move over Joan Rivers!
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bristol pa
Posts: 5,874
Thanks: 51
Thanked 72 Times in 64 Posts
Rep Power: 9
deniseO30 will become famous soon enough deniseO30 will become famous soon enough
Re: Building an emergency rudder- 2 questions;

Brian one of the best all time epoxy mixing cups comes from Chinese food soup containers. They seem to be a very soft Tupperware like plastic.
__________________
Denise, Bristol PA, Oday 30. On Tidal Delaware River, Anchor Yacht Club. New Website!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

my current "project"!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Let's build an Emergency Rudder! (or not) deniseO30 Gear & Maintenance 21 03-04-2013 05:26 PM
New kind of emergency rudder Bene505 Gear & Maintenance 19 12-07-2010 11:59 AM
M-RUD emergency rudder rdw Gear & Maintenance 0 11-01-2010 09:03 PM
Emergency Rudder Post Fiberglass Cracking SVArgo Pacific Seacraft 0 08-09-2010 09:24 AM
Emergency rudder ideas ? jbrockpiano Gear & Maintenance 11 12-04-2007 07:07 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:42 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.