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  #11  
Old 02-25-2005
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How Heavy Is Too Heavy

I''m not talking exceptions. When statements are made about "heavy" or "light" displacement it is generally benchmarked against the length of boat. Ask any yacht designer for a heavy displacement boat and a light displacement boat of any length and see what happens...one will be short and one long. Hence, a 24k heavy is not thought of in the same terms of a 24k light boat for motion. No matter how you dice it a light displacement boat gets moved easier by wave action than a heavy boat. Light has has more motion for its length. It also will lose momentum quicker and accelerate faster.

"Modern boat"...thin bow and clb aft...wanna talk about a hobby horse now? Wait until you get in a BIG short chop and watch the boat stall. The only thing it won''t do is bury the bow as easy.

Sorry to disagree but 24k lbs displacement is 24k lbs displacement. If ballast is the same neither length has more capacity than the other.

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Old 02-25-2005
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How Heavy Is Too Heavy

I have noticed some other stuff as well, which, not being a naval architect, I have experienced but cannot adequately explain.

One of my previous boats, a 1956 Winthrop Warner Cambridge Cadet, was 28 or 29 feet on deck with a 5 foot draft and 9 feet of beam. She was so alarmingly tender when you first set sails that I always thought she was going down, but when she just got her scuppers gurling, that was it. I one time had so much weather helm that I had my feet on the opposite seat and held the tiller with both hands. At this time she was what I called ''on her shoulder'' and bashed through waves with impunity, the wind in her sails seeming to lend a great deal of ''weight'' to the boat. At any rate, she was a different animal under sail than sitting still. By the way, yes, I learned to reef and ease weather helm.

Another thing I have noticed after going to a schooner, is that a short rig does little to help dampen fore and aft lunging under power. It acts almost like a powerboat and can''t get any stabilizing help from the rig. Not so when under sail, but under bare poles, when 22,000 pounds says ''fly forward'' , those little sticks do.

A lighter boat with a big stick and a long waterline can actually have a better ''crossing the bay'' temperment.
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Old 02-26-2005
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How Heavy Is Too Heavy

billpjr,
Good question.
I should have stated that my question was meant for the bay and coastal sailors.
Myself? I would not go to sea on a ''modern'' design mainly because I would be alone or shorthanded and I would be very concerned about fatigue in a blow or shortly after a blow.
I think if you have enough crew and this ''modern'' design is in excess of 70'' or so, it''s the only way to go.
But I''m not talking about large boats weighing alot, ''cause big boats weigh alot! I''m talking about sailboats that weigh far more than they should. After just so much weight, your just doing youself more harm than good.

Dennis
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Old 02-26-2005
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How Heavy Is Too Heavy

RichH,
Thats not the way it works.
A heavy boat will hit the wave and slow waaaay down while a fine bow will knife right through it.
I own a 32''er with a 12,000lb displacement and almost full ends and my speed will drop sometimes 3 or 4 kts depending...
As far as carrying stores...if you could cut your voyaging time by 1/3, you would also be able to cut your stores by 1/3. Less stores, less weight.
And what about the time added to a voyage because you couldn''t outrun the storm or two weeks of light air in the Doldrums,or anywhere. How is a heavy boat in light air?
If you were voyaging, wouldn''t you want the passage to go quickly?
Direction stability is a product of design. Not displacement.
Everybody trims their sails to their maximum efficiency.
I''m not talking about racing boats. You said that. I''d say it''s more like compairing a blimp to a twin prop 6 passenger.
Going slow is what I''ve been doing for the past 25 years. My next boat will be fast and go to weather well.
Where do you guys sail your boats?

Dennis


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Old 02-26-2005
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How Heavy Is Too Heavy

sailinaway,
The Catalina 38 in the years ''76-''90 displaces 15,900lbs standard and 16,700 with shoal keel. Ballest 6,850 and 7,550 respectivly.
What helped you keep your speed was a fine bow which your boat has.
I''ve had my boat up to 9.5 kts. Grossly over canvassed. The boat was on her ear and in a following sea.

Dennis
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Old 02-26-2005
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windship has a little shameless behaviour in the past
How Heavy Is Too Heavy

Swan,Tarten,Sabre,Ericson Or Catalina, Beneteau,Pearson O''day. Something like that. Do you have to go all the way to the extreme other end to try and justify your excessive weight? Thats like the fat woman comparing herself to Calista Flockhart.

Dennis

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Old 03-10-2005
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How Heavy Is Too Heavy

Back to the original question, define heaviness as the relationship between the displacement of a given boat and its waterline length:
Disp. (in long tons 2240#)/ (0.01 x lwl)cubed
If the 41''er has a 36'' lwl, it would have a displacement/length ratio of about 317. That puts it in the "heavy" class (300-350)
Moderate 200-285
Light 140-175
Ultra light <100
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