Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat? - Page 4 - SailNet Community
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post #31 of 64 Old 01-30-2014
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

I dont think I would of had ANY benefit using a VANG on my wooden 1959 H28 with boom about a foot off the coachroof

so again the answer is NOT ALL BOATS USE VANGS this was a ketch and the boom was probably longer than my main boom on my current boat



sorry for being stubborn here

dinghies of course...

in laser racing if I saw a straight boom upwind you hammered the kid straight till he understood

at least thats what I did as a coach jajaja

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post #32 of 64 Old 01-30-2014
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by christian.hess View Post
I dont think I would of had ANY benefit using a VANG on my wooden 1959 H28 with boom about a foot off the coachroof

so again the answer is NOT ALL BOATS USE VANGS this was a ketch and the boom was probably longer than my main boom on my current boat



sorry for being stubborn here.....
But there's a difference between saying a vang wouldn't have helped vs a situation where a vang couldn't physically be rigged in any functional way, which is the way I see your example..

Had you raised the boom a foot then a vang could have been fitted and the boat would have been better off for it.. perhaps even to the point of making up for lost sail area... JMO, as ever...

Ron

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post #33 of 64 Old 01-30-2014
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

just reading the last few paragraphs here and comments makes me realize that maybe not all of us here have had experience sailing dinghies and small boats...

you really learn so much I recomend it to everyone

vangs arent for preventing gybes...

vangs on small boats, dinghies, racing boats and the like are designed for better sail shape...

you get a bend in a boom and you flatten sail if really windy or get a little pocket if light air...this is paired with outhaul tension and downhaul enabling you to get a better shape and more wind...or less depending on what reach you are.

in laser sailing for example as soon as you round the number 3 marker and head ddw first thing you do is dump release the vang...and outhaul....if your quick you do it all at once...while getting the boat flat or the main up in the air to get cleaner air

(you cant do this on big boats really but just sayin)

that way you get a nice big bellowy sail to fill up with wind and you fill it better and sail better...

now applying this to big boats is hard sometimes...first off its hard to get the sail all billowy and full of air downwind cause most boats especially cruising boats have all sorts of crap, reef lines, winches, lazy jacks, running backstays I mean a whole crap load of stuff on or around the boom and sometomes the outhauls dont even work or are frozen if the sail is rope rigged into the boom etc...

now not all sailboats or cruising boats are setup up this way but I know of very very few big sail boats and captains that would do this each gybe or heading change

I was friends with some guys on an esprit 37 who tuned that boat like a race boat, rod rigging, masive vang, 2 spinnies...and they flew an asymetrical all across the pacific days on end...they were FAST

anywhoo

again I stress vangs do help preventing the boom from going AWOL or like the scenario mentioned above, this happens a lot in laser sailing if you let out the main sheet too much and the boom is forward of the mast downwind...that is not to say its main function is to prevent gybes thats not true


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post #34 of 64 Old 01-30-2014
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

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Originally Posted by Faster View Post
But there's a difference between saying a vang wouldn't have helped vs a situation where a vang couldn't physically be rigged in any functional way, which is the way I see your example..

Had you raised the boom a foot then a vang could have been fitted and the boat would have been better off for it.. perhaps even to the point of making up for lost sail area... JMO, as ever...

yes its horses for courses...but you must understand that not all boats needs vangs or benefit from using one

my boat was designed by herreshof, the good one...having the boom low and close to the coachroof has its benefits too...for one there is less momentum up high...there is less air turbulence(can you say americas cup foilers?) and its easy to douse sails

lastly the boom weighed a whole bunch making the mainsail steadier and less twitchy

designs designs designs...

not every boat is created equal...

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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

Quote:
that is not to say its main function is to prevent gybes thats not true
Don't think anyone said that... what a few of us have said is that it prevents a 'Goosewing' Gybe - ie a gybe where the boom is free to 'sky' during the maneouver, the mainsail itself gybes half/half along the way - the results can be snagging the backstay, or such violent motion and recovery as to damage the rigging..



But no one has said it's a 'gybe preventer'...
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Last edited by Faster; 01-30-2014 at 05:53 PM.
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post #36 of 64 Old 01-30-2014
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Don't think anyone said that... what a few of us have said is that it prevents a 'Goosewing' Gybe - ie a gybe where the boom is free to 'sky' during the maneouver, the mainsail itself gybes half/half along the way - the results can be snagging the backstay, or such violent motion and recovery as to damage the rigging...
Agreed using a vang is the preferred option to prevent 'goosewing gybes'. The other option weighs 95kgs and, in my experience, works almost as well.. although it does require occasional feeding.

Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?-cid_2b82f436-8044-43fa-8e20-579f2c96cc51.jpg
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post #37 of 64 Old 01-31-2014
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by christian.hess View Post

in laser sailing for example as soon as you round the number 3 marker and head ddw first thing you do is dump release the vang...and outhaul....if your quick you do it all at once...while getting the boat flat or the main up in the air to get cleaner air
Hang on a second here...This statement implies that you don't use the vang DDW on a Laser. You certainly don't want to "dump" the vang. Downwind is when the vang is needed the most! If you don't have correct vang tension your sail will twist excessively and dump air and power. A quick adjustment at the mark rounding is likely, but certainly not a dump! (perhaps it was just a poor choice of words?)

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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

Looking at your picture I think: Even with traveler on the aft end of the house it looks like when set up correctly the vang will attach forward of any main sheet tackle.
This means forces on the boom will be spread over more points and a larger area. So even close hauled the boom is less subject to failure.

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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Looking at your picture I think: Even with traveler on the aft end of the house it looks like when set up correctly the vang will attach forward of any main sheet tackle.
This means forces on the boom will be spread over more points and a larger area. So even close hauled the boom is less subject to failure.
..or not, depending upon where he drills the holes...

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post #40 of 64 Old 01-31-2014
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

Funny I never sailed my laser to race but my understanding was always that the Vang function was to flatten the sail to depower it in high winds, not the contrary
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