Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat? - Page 5 - SailNet Community
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post #41 of 64 Old 01-31-2014
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

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Originally Posted by Sabreman View Post
I rig a preventer from the forward-most bail on the boom to a point on our inboard genoa track. The arrangement is similar to what is shown in the first photo in the following link. I don't like the angle in the photo because there isn't much down pull - I'd move the preventer aft to the first mainsheet block and attach the bottom to the outboard genoa track, further aft. That would make the angle more vertical with more down pull.
I think we have a vocabulary problem. What you are describing is not a preventer. A preventer is intended to hold the boom forward.

You appear to be more concerned with holding the boom down. That is the function of a vang and with a well configured vang you shouldn't have to keep moving it around.

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Originally Posted by christian.hess View Post
just reading the last few paragraphs here and comments makes me realize that maybe not all of us here have had experience sailing dinghies and small boats...

you really learn so much I recomend it to everyone

vangs arent for preventing gybes...

vangs on small boats, dinghies, racing boats and the like are designed for better sail shape...



(you cant do this on big boats really but just sayin)
Pretty much you can. Some cruisers either don't know how or can't be bothered. Vang is a great adjustment on my 25k# cutter-rigged sloop, even with a tree trunk for a mast.

Of course I actually use my backstay adjuster. *grin*

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I was friends with some guys on an esprit 37 who tuned that boat like a race boat, rod rigging, masive vang, 2 spinnies...and they flew an asymetrical all across the pacific days on end...they were FAST
I'd like to meet those guys.
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post #42 of 64 Old 01-31-2014
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

On my last cruise, I did not adjust my solid boom vang, one single time, during the entire eight months.

Disaster did not ensue.
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post #43 of 64 Old 01-31-2014
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

G9- Unless you have in-mast roller furling, how do you raise a mainsail without at least releasing a vang?
If you do have in-mast roller furling did you ever realize how much strain (accumulated deformation) your putting into that leech every time you 'un-roll' if you dont release that vang?
If you have in-mast roller furling there is a 99% chance that your mainsail is woven dacron which stretches (luff and leech) in direct proportion to wind loading ... youre saying that you dont bother to adjust that elongation caused by wind pressure?
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post #44 of 64 Old 01-31-2014
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

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Originally Posted by SchockT View Post
Hang on a second here...This statement implies that you don't use the vang DDW on a Laser. You certainly don't want to "dump" the vang. Downwind is when the vang is needed the most! If you don't have correct vang tension your sail will twist excessively and dump air and power. A quick adjustment at the mark rounding is likely, but certainly not a dump! (perhaps it was just a poor choice of words?)
yes in retrospect it was...however the point was that you release MOST tension on it but keep it pseudo toaught and adjust every gybe for exampl or depending on wind strenght to keep correct sail shape...

downwind sailing on lasers is where you use body weight and position the most...while holding the daggerboard in position constantly while keeping the boat flat or main up in the air...just at about 90 degress or more if you are good...nice billowy sail...full and curved...outhail almost all the way out on te marks...

by dumping I meant you release most tension on the main sheet and vang at the same time

cause what would happens if you dont? snapped booms and broken vang connections at the mast as happens ALL the time with new laser sailors...

vang technique is one of the key points in teaching laser sailing...massively important

it can also be transposed to big boat sailing

jeje

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post #45 of 64 Old 01-31-2014
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

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Funny I never sailed my laser to race but my understanding was always that the Vang function was to flatten the sail to depower it in high winds, not the contrary

thats what I was saying at least,..maybe my words werent corectly expressed vangs are extremely useful for upwind legs wehere the boom tip should be about 6 inches or so from the deck...inside the aft quarter...

bending the boom as its called effectively flattens sail..but you must pair it with correct OUTHAUL tension

its the outhaul that effectively flattens the sail or not...

BTW you can bend the boom effectively racking the mast to get center of affort back a bit and better sail shape...

you have many ways to tune a laser sail...

vangs on lasers ddw expressed here can work as a mini mainsheet if you will

light air sailing ddw you haul in the vang till movement is stiff...then the wieght of the mainsheet sags and effectively you are sailing with the vang...now in big winds its you tune differently

anywhoo

backto big boats and vangs

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post #46 of 64 Old 01-31-2014
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

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Originally Posted by SVAuspicious View Post
I think we have a vocabulary problem. What you are describing is not a preventer. A preventer is intended to hold the boom forward.

You appear to be more concerned with holding the boom down. That is the function of a vang and with a well configured vang you shouldn't have to keep moving it around.



Pretty much you can. Some cruisers either don't know how or can't be bothered. Vang is a great adjustment on my 25k# cutter-rigged sloop, even with a tree trunk for a mast.

Of course I actually use my backstay adjuster. *grin*



I'd like to meet those guys.
GENE AND SHERRI SEYBOLD esprit 37 "REFLECTIONS" from stockton, ca now in hawaii

we left galapagos about 3 or 4 days days ahead of them and they arrived 2 nights ahead of us...

ther daily avergae was substantially higher...they did not like to depower...

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post #47 of 64 Old 01-31-2014
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

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Originally Posted by RichH View Post
G9- Unless you have in-mast roller furling, how do you raise a mainsail without at least releasing a vang?
If you do have in-mast roller furling did you ever realize how much strain (accumulated deformation) your putting into that leech every time you 'un-roll' if you dont release that vang?
If you have in-mast roller furling there is a 99% chance that your mainsail is woven dacron which stretches (luff and leech) in direct proportion to wind loading ... youre saying that you dont bother to adjust that elongation caused by wind pressure?
topping lift?

you adjust the topping lift on most cruisers to keep weight off the main halyard, when raising...then simply release after raising sail...

topping lifts arent just for keeping the boom up at harbor...they are also a nice safety feature.

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post #48 of 64 Old 01-31-2014
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

Also find if you release vang and tighten topping lift before reefing you get a better shape. With single line reefing for first two reefs get different shape depending on how much pull in toppling is applied and how much it's eased after reef.
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

How do you 'raise' / tension a topping lift without changing the tension or releasing the vang?
How do you put in a reef without releasing a vang? .... as mainsails are not 'cut' with their tack angles at 90 but usually somewhere between 87 - 85, or less especially if the mast is well raked by 'design'.
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post #50 of 64 Old 01-31-2014
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

your effectively bending the boom like that...this creates a pocket IF and only IF you have correct outhaul tension or in your case reef points.

on old sails its recomended to not adjust SO much cause you are strecthing and tightening up old fabric and a sail that would otherwise last many years simply cruising in a fixed position will quickly die like this

on new sails its great to slowly adjust and start tweaking your best sail shapes as the new fabric will strecth and conform to your sailing desires

anywhoo

very good point!

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