Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat? - Page 6 - SailNet Community
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post #51 of 64 Old 01-31-2014
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

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How do you 'raise' / tension a topping lift without changing the tension or releasing the vang?
How do you put in a reef without releasing a vang? .... as mainsails are not 'cut' with their tack angles at 90 but usually somewhere between 87 - 85, or less especially if the mast is well raked by 'design'.
I dont know...maybe Im not understanding but I can raise a sail or not with or without a vang...

again not all boats have vangs

my h28 didnt...my islander 34 did(basically a 2.1 pulley) that was useless...

you trick either line by fixing it in position first...

for example you set topping lift at said hieght...you can push boom up...then haul down on vang effectively bending boom into position

that way you have a bent boom with pocket...

now you adjust outhaul to create more pocket...then you adjust main halyard tension to creat the perfect wrinkle or not

then you are free to play with downhaul adjustments too

the sky is the limit

on big boats especially cruisers Ill say it again

THEY WANT NONE OF IT!

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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

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G9- Unless you have in-mast roller furling, how do you raise a mainsail without at least releasing a vang?
If you do have in-mast roller furling did you ever realize how much strain (accumulated deformation) your putting into that leech every time you 'un-roll' if you dont release that vang?
If you have in-mast roller furling there is a 99% chance that your mainsail is woven dacron which stretches (luff and leech) in direct proportion to wind loading ... youre saying that you dont bother to adjust that elongation caused by wind pressure?
Yeah, no I don't have mast roller furling, and yeah, that's what I'm saying.

I take it back. There may have been one time. I had a racer on board one time, and he pretty much spent the entire week he was on board with me, continuously pulling and adjusting ever single line on the boat, and then saying something like, "See, that increased our speed by a tenth of a knot."

I threw him overboard and haven't seen him since.

On the northern Gulf of Mexico.


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post #53 of 64 Old 01-31-2014
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

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on big boats especially cruisers Ill say it again

THEY WANT NONE OF IT!
Too bad... if they are coastal cruisers they are probably getting to port too late for that last mooring buoy, the last spot on the dock, or the last table at their favourite restaurant.

One of the joys of sailing for me is all the tweaking and trimming striving for the best speed/VMG whether racing or not. - Catching that distant boat on the horizon in the next 10 or 20 miles...

I hate to see/hear newbies with Cat 22s and such without a vang "don't need it"... "don't know how to use it"... "doesn't really matter, does it??".. "we're not racing"

Beginning sailors are much more likely to experience a higher occurrence of accidental gybes and arguably 'need' a vang even more for that reason alone.
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

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Too bad... if they are coastal cruisers they are probably getting to port too late for that last mooring buoy, the last spot on the dock, or the last table at their favourite restaurant.

One of the joys of sailing for me is all the tweaking and trimming striving for the best speed/VMG whether racing or not. - Catching that distant boat on the horizon in the next 10 or 20 miles...

I hate to see/hear newbies with Cat 22s and such without a vang "don't need it"... "don't know how to use it"... "doesn't really matter, does it??".. "we're not racing"

Beginning sailors are much more likely to experience a higher occurrence of accidental gybes and arguably 'need' a vang even more for that reason alone.
I know people like you.

On the northern Gulf of Mexico.


"Best thing to do is get her out on the ocean. If anything's gonna happen, it's gonna happen out there." Captain Ron Rico
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post #55 of 64 Old 01-31-2014
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

yup...but a cat 22 isnt the most common cruiser is it? or medium size boat

I agree with you man honestly

I can have it both ways too

relaxed getting into port whenever, sail shapes fixed at a nice midway setting or

tweaking and have fun like I used to in my racing days(btw I like to cruise more than race)

so what Im saying in the end I guess is there is no fixed way of doing things on all boats...

if you have a vang and its installed correctly(a lot arent) then used it and learn how to

if you dont like it sell it

if you have a boat with no vang and a light finicky boom and small ratio main then why not rig one up, tune it and have fun...be safe...

vangs are great when used well

not so and quite dangerous when not...a snapping vang for example can be catastrophic for goosenecks, mast fitting and booms

it happens all the time either by racing aggresively or simply by bad useage


its this that my points were foccused on

peace

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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

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I know people like you.
... only until you toss them off the boat!
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post #57 of 64 Old 01-31-2014
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

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Yeah, no I don't have mast roller furling, and yeah, that's what I'm saying.

I take it back. There may have been one time. I had a racer on board one time, and he pretty much spent the entire week he was on board with me, continuously pulling and adjusting ever single line on the boat, and then saying something like, "See, that increased our speed by a tenth of a knot."

I threw him overboard and haven't seen him since.
I would assume that your 'racer friend' also increased the ability of your boat to 'point' by many degrees. Such would be important sometimes when 'clawing off a lee shore' or attempting to sail into the wind before stink weather arrives.
Nowadays the trend of many cruisers, sadly, is to drop all sails at the least threat of increased wind/waves and turn on the BIG engine; those pointy white things on the top of the boat used for the indication of a quaint 'bygone historical culture' of sailing. ;-)
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

couldnt agree more rich

peace

slow boats arent "that" slow in the hands of smart skippers...and trimmers

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post #59 of 64 Old 01-31-2014
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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faster View Post
Too bad... if they are coastal cruisers they are probably getting to port too late for that last mooring buoy, the last spot on the dock, or the last table at their favourite restaurant.

One of the joys of sailing for me is all the tweaking and trimming striving for the best speed/VMG whether racing or not. - Catching that distant boat on the horizon in the next 10 or 20 miles...

I hate to see/hear newbies with Cat 22s and such without a vang "don't need it"... "don't know how to use it"... "doesn't really matter, does it??".. "we're not racing"

Beginning sailors are much more likely to experience a higher occurrence of accidental gybes and arguably 'need' a vang even more for that reason alone.
All of that is exactly right. In addition, even if speed has less than zero importance to you, proper use of outhaul, vang, and halyard tension results in less heeling, less weather helm, better course holding with less steering input changes, less wear and tear on the sails, which are all useful to sailors of all kinds, but especially to cruisers.

In the discussion about setting the vang and topping lift when raising and lowering sails, probably the one control line that almost never adjust in my topping lift. It remains set at a length which is sufficiently slack when under sail and coincidentally does not create problems with headroom in the cockpit when the sail is dropped.

Outbound's comment about the toping lift setting during a reef effecting the shape of his sail has me curoius since I have not seen that myself. In my case, there is no relationship between the topping lift settings and shape of my sail when reefed.

Before raising the sail, I typically preset my vang and outhaul to the positions that I typically use for light air, which are pretty slack. Both are led back to stoppers at the cockpit which are adjacent to the halyard so as the boat bears away I make final adjustments of the outhaul and vang, adjusting the outhaul first and then the vang.

Jeff


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Re: Is a Vang Really Useful on a mid to Large Boat?

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Originally Posted by RichH View Post
I would assume that your 'racer friend' also increased the ability of your boat to 'point' by many degrees. Such would be important sometimes when 'clawing off a lee shore' or attempting to sail into the wind before stink weather arrives.
Nowadays the trend of many cruisers, sadly, is to drop all sails at the least threat of increased wind/waves and turn on the BIG engine; those pointy white things on the top of the boat used for the indication of a quaint 'bygone historical culture' of sailing. ;-)
Have we met somewhere before? You seem to think you know a lot more about me than I know about you.

I've only been sailing since I was 14. I'm 55 now. Some how, by some miracle, I have crossed the Gulf of Mexico four times, crossed the Gulf Stream numerous times, sailed through quite a few storms, and had my boat survive three hurricanes at anchor. And, none of that horrible stuff has happened to me because I didn't sail like you do (however that is).

Maybe I just haven't been sailing long enough, yet.

On the northern Gulf of Mexico.


"Best thing to do is get her out on the ocean. If anything's gonna happen, it's gonna happen out there." Captain Ron Rico
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