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  #1  
Old 02-18-2014
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Sail cloth weights

Needless to say our main and #2 genoa are more than a little tired after 30,000 miles (and the main was not new to start). We have gotten two quotes including recommendations on cloth weight and the weights are quite different.
The Doyle Caribbean agent is recommending 9.77 oz cloth for both the #130 and the furling main. North is recommending around 8.2 oz for the main and 7.7 oz for the jib - in both cases we are talking standard dacron, not the fancy stuff. The North jib we are replacing is 7.7 oz. The main is 475 sq ft and the genoa 600 sq ft.

The Doyle weights seem excessive but they are the ones they recommend for a fairly heavy 45 footer. We probably will not be spending much time in the Caribbean and lighter air performance will be an issue in the US Northeast and Great Lakes. I assume that lighter cloth would also be a bit cheaper. BTW, the Doyle price is almost $3000 cheaper than North for the two sails (Barbados manufacture for one and Sri Lanka for the other).

Your thoughts?
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Old 02-18-2014
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Re: Sail cloth weights

Do you plan to go back out circumnavagating? Or are you going to stay in the great lakes and coastal cruise?
I would go with the lighter fabric if you are going to spend some time in the great lakes.

If you are going back out you may wish to go with what they offer. Then again, you made it 30k with your present sails. So why go heavier?
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Old 02-18-2014
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Re: Sail cloth weights

I'm not a pro on sail construction, but that's not a small difference. It makes me wonder if there are other critical difference between those sails or the durability of their respecitve manufacturer's cloth.

We exclusively cruise (other than racing the random boat heading in the same direction), so I favor having a more durable sail over the one that might be lightest, fastest or whatever. I want to be able to get home in an unexpected gale and worry less about blowing the sail out.

I've actually been meaning to get a light wind sail and just haven't gotten around to it.
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Old 02-18-2014
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Re: Sail cloth weights

Quote:
Originally Posted by killarney_sailor View Post
Needless to say our main and #2 genoa are more than a little tired after 30,000 miles (and the main was not new to start). We have gotten two quotes including recommendations on cloth weight and the weights are quite different.
The Doyle Caribbean agent is recommending 9.77 oz cloth for both the #130 and the furling main. North is recommending around 8.2 oz for the main and 7.7 oz for the jib - in both cases we are talking standard dacron, not the fancy stuff. The North jib we are replacing is 7.7 oz. The main is 475 sq ft and the genoa 600 sq ft.

The Doyle weights seem excessive but they are the ones they recommend for a fairly heavy 45 footer. We probably will not be spending much time in the Caribbean and lighter air performance will be an issue in the US Northeast and Great Lakes. I assume that lighter cloth would also be a bit cheaper. BTW, the Doyle price is almost $3000 cheaper than North for the two sails (Barbados manufacture for one and Sri Lanka for the other).

Your thoughts?
Hmmm...

You got 30K miles out of a used sail using 7.7oz cloth. You are not planning a circumnavigation, or traveling to places where getting repairs may be tricky, but are planning on coastal cruising in lighter air locales... And you are considering going with heavier cloth?
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Old 02-18-2014
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Re: Sail cloth weights

I have a near new number two off of a c&c 40 8oz never actually used I could sell for 1500 made by watts customer got new kevlar for transpac as soon as he bought the boat the sail was never actually flown
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Old 02-18-2014
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Re: Sail cloth weights

Thanks for the comments. I checked similar sized sails at Bacon's and basically none were as heavy as Doyle are suggesting. I think I will drop at least one weight down (8.77 oz) for each sail.
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Back in the water in Grenada - with new main and #2 and cockpit canvas (Santa came early). Will spend the winter and early spring in the Caribbean and then head to Bermuda and the northeast US. Still trying to decide if we will bring the boat to Canada, either in 2015 or 2016.
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Old 02-18-2014
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Re: Sail cloth weights

Stability of the weave which lessens the amount of permanent stretch is probably THE most important consideration. Suggest you discuss with your chosen sailmaker the selection of a 'prime' dacron sail cloth such as Contender™ or Challenge™ ... even at a lower weight.

AND .... with most dacron mainsails the as-raised shape is very dependent on the luff boltrope. Boltropes shrink over time and such is the PRIMARY cause of 'bagginess' and 'blown out' mainsails. Discuss with your sailmaker a means of providing an extra-length of boltrope rope that extends past the luff sleeve and is sewn ('stored') to the headboard --- so when you eventually need to adjust (ease) that boltrope all YOU (or your sailmaker) have to do is cut the sail twine binding, slide the 'stored' boltrope into the sleeve (to restore the luff dimension) and resew (twine, sail needle and palm). Otherwise if extra-length of boltrope isnt already 'stored' and ready to go, a boltrope adjustment/replacement can be quite costly. If already stored, its a one hour job.
On any sailboat that has a woven dacron main that boltrope 'should' be readjusted probably every 200-300 hours of HARD sailing. Just be sure to keep the exact as-lofted OEM luff dimension handy so you can exactly 'restore' to the proper as-lofted luff dimension.
Once a boltrope shrinks, the sail will be draft-aft, excess draft, ... the boat will be SLOW and will aggressively heel-over. A simple 'easing' of that boltrope will usually 95% restore that as-designed shape back to OEM.

Other. On my cruising boats I always apply 'over-the-top' leech purse lines - the leech line extends to a cheek block mounted on the headboard ... and the line continues in a sleeve down along the LUFF; at each reef position along the luff the line is exposed and has its own jam cleat. This enables the leech tension to be controlled from the base of the Mast (or run back to the cockpit) - instead of hanging overboard with one hand hanging onto 'something', the other hand 'futzing' with a damn leech line while one leg is 'dangling' over the water.

Other #2. I also like small permanent installed 'intermediate' battens between the top, 2nd, and third battens --- helps to keep the leech shape longer in a sail with big roach.

hope this helps.
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Old 02-18-2014
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Re: Sail cloth weights

Rich, the main is furling so your comments, which makes a lot of sense don't really apply. The Hood main that is being replaced does not even have a bolt rope> it is set up like a genoa with a foil inside the mast that the sail goes in. Leach line over the top, which I had on my last boat is a good idea.
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Back in the water in Grenada - with new main and #2 and cockpit canvas (Santa came early). Will spend the winter and early spring in the Caribbean and then head to Bermuda and the northeast US. Still trying to decide if we will bring the boat to Canada, either in 2015 or 2016.
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Re: Sail cloth weights

understand about the furling main; but, still discuss the possibility of a 'quality' sail cloth such as Challenge™ or Contender™. Negotiate !!!! ;-)
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Old 02-19-2014
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Re: Sail cloth weights

You might also be a good candidate for Ullmans Tri axis laminate. Similar cost to Dacron, ok, so 5-10% more. But the overall wt of the cloth is slightly lighter, and works better in liter wind environments, like Puget sound where I am.....Furls tighter according to a couple of folks I know with furlers. I can not vouch personally, as I do not have furling sails. I do like how my 140 works.

Not sure on longevity.......at least as of yet.... but so far what few reviews I have seen show it to be doing pretty good.

Another thought for you to mull around.

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