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  #11  
Old 02-25-2014
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Re: Need help selecting Jib Tracks.

Hi Eric , the set up that Knutreikt showed is really cool though more for a race boat IMOP. You can get everything you need over at Minney's . As far as the T track goes 1 1/4 wide would be good and you shouldn't need more than about 3' per side . I have some cars you might be interested in .
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  #12  
Old 02-25-2014
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Re: Need help selecting Jib Tracks.

To answer your question, T-Track comes in standard sizes and lengths. For example, my t-track is 1” wide and is sold in the maximum of ten foot lengths. I believe there is also a ¾ width. If you go with a narrower track, you will also need to buy smaller cars which may reduce your selection.

You have a fair amount of engineering ahead of you. In order to help you better, you need to take a bunch of photographs of your rig and deck so I can help you better on placement. You will also want to get a good quality line drawing of both the profile and overhead view for your boat (deck placement and furnishings). You will want to design your track to be long enough to accommodate the sails you intend to use as well as give you ample adjustment to any individual sails.

Generally speaking, the larger the headsail the further back the lead needs to be positioned and the lower the clew placement and the smaller the LP, the further forward the car. Likewise, to achieve a flatter headsail (strong wind conditions) the further aft the car and for a more rounded, “powered up” shape (bashing through waves or accelerating out of tacks) the further forward. Knowing the foot, leech and luff dimensions of your jib, draw them on the line drawing to establish where your clew is. Then extend the LP line through the clew to the deck. This is where you want the “mid” point of the track. Now do this for your other jibs (or ones you may potentially want to buy). Give yourself allowances for adjusting the cars and you now have defined the length and position of the track. Next you need to figure out inboard outboard placement. The ideal sheeting angle is 8-10* from centerline. This is what race boats like the Farr 40 sheet at. Unfortunately, you must deal with your shrouds. On your overhead drawing, plot your “ideal” angle and clew placement. Next draw in some camber into the headsail and see where it clears the shrouds. In a full beat you want the sail to be just “kissing” the shroud and not bending around it. You can experiment with this by rigging a barber hauler on your existing setup to determine the inboard-outboard placement.

Next you need to determine how you are going to mount the thing. You will need to be able to through bolt it every four inches. Mounting it on top of the toe rail can be problematic as the deck-hull joint tends to make it difficult to thread a bolt and washer from the underside.
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  #13  
Old 02-25-2014
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Re: Need help selecting Jib Tracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
To answer your question, T-Track comes in standard sizes and lengths. For example, my t-track is 1” wide and is sold in the maximum of ten foot lengths. I believe there is also a ¾ width. If you go with a narrower track, you will also need to buy smaller cars which may reduce your selection.

You have a fair amount of engineering ahead of you. In order to help you better, you need to take a bunch of photographs of your rig and deck so I can help you better on placement. You will also want to get a good quality line drawing of both the profile and overhead view (deck placement and furnishings). You will want to design your track to be long enough to accommodate the sails you intend to use as well as give you ample adjustment to any individual sails.

Generally speaking, the larger the headsail the further back the lead needs to be positioned and the lower the clew placement and the smaller the LP, the further forward the car. Likewise, to achieve a flatter headsail (strong wind conditions) the further aft the car and for a more rounded, “powered up” shape (bashing through waves or accelerating out of tacks) the further forward. Knowing the foot, leech and luff dimensions of your jib, draw them on the line drawing to establish where your clew is. Then extend the LP line through the clew to the deck. This is where you want the “mid” point of the track. Now do this for your other jibs (or ones you may potentially want to buy). Give yourself allowances for adjusting the cars and you now have defined the length and position of the track. Next you need to figure out inboard outboard placement. The ideal sheeting angle is 8-10* from centerline. This is what race boats like the Farr 40 sheet at. Unfortunately, you must deal with your shrouds. On your overhead drawing, plot your “ideal” angle and clew placement. Next draw in some camber into the headsail and see where it clears the shrouds. In a full beat you want the sail to be just “kissing” the shroud and not bending around it. You can experiment with this by rigging a barber hauler on your existing setup to determine the inboard-outboard placement.

Next you need to determine how you are going to mount the thing. You will need to be able to through bolt it every four inches. Mounting it on top of the toe rail can be problematic as the deck-hull joint tends to make it difficult to thread a bolt and washer from the underside.
Wow! Looks like I've got some homework to do! Attached is a line drawing of my boat. I'll have to wait until the weekend to take the other measurements...At present, I have a Storm Jib and a 100 genoa. I do plan on getting a 130 or 150 fairly soon, which will probably end my headsail inventory for the time being.
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Last edited by ericb760; 02-25-2014 at 02:37 PM.
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  #14  
Old 02-25-2014
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Re: Need help selecting Jib Tracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markwesti View Post
Hi Eric , the set up that Knutreikt showed is really cool though more for a race boat IMOP. You can get everything you need over at Minney's . As far as the T track goes 1 1/4 wide would be good and you shouldn't need more than about 3' per side . I have some cars you might be interested in .
Thanks, Mark. Will you be around this weekend?
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  #15  
Old 02-26-2014
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Re: Need help selecting Jib Tracks.

For storm jib up to a 150% Genoa I would expect your tracks to be longer than 3'. You may end up wanting two sets of tracks, some inboard ones for non-overlapping sails and outboard ones for the Genoa.
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  #16  
Old 02-26-2014
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Re: Need help selecting Jib Tracks.

id keep it simple eric...youre a small boat with small loads...but its all dependant on budget and needs

you DO NOT need 48 inches of trackm PHEW id go even less than 24

take a good look at your sheets when on the wind and downind and the on a beam or broad reach...lightly mark on deck the IDEAL positions that the block should be to exert appropriate tension on the clew...}

you can also do this with a helper...

manually grab the sheets and pull down, in out etc...while on different points of sail this will give you an idea of where and at WHAT ANGLE to install the track

if you feel you need more or less track length for given foresail adjust acoordingly

obvioulsy if you use a 100 percent and a big 150% plus genoa you are going to need a huge track and at different angles(2 track common on racers) but if you use small sails or medium size commonly then you can keep track lengths shorter...and only one

just use a simple soring loaded car and on boats as small as yours you can even move them while loaded...I did so on my 28 footer all the time...press sheet down with foot, push car forward and bam good to go

jajaja

good luck
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  #17  
Old 02-26-2014
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Re: Need help selecting Jib Tracks.

I went to SBD and looked at the dwg. Scaling the jib sheet block placement seems to be nearer to 9 feet than 8. Helluvva long track, that!
I'll side with Christian on this one. K..I.S.S. I do the "step-on-sheet" trick when placing blocks for optimal.
A couple of snatch blocks and a few pad-eyes is a bunch easier and considerable cheaper. Seriously??? Once optimal (for a particular jib and general conditions) is set; how often do you need to tweak the string's placement?
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  #18  
Old 02-26-2014
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Re: Need help selecting Jib Tracks.

A 2' long track is nowhere near enough to cover 3 sail sizes on this boat. The foot of his genoa will be about 14.5', and the foot of his jib should be near 11'. A storm jib will be even smaller.

A 2' track would allow for fine tuning of any one of these sails, but can't provide the correct lead positions for all of them.

If it were my boat I think I'd have two tracks. A 4' long track for overlapping sails, and a short track on the cabin top for non-overlapping sails.
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  #19  
Old 02-26-2014
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Re: Need help selecting Jib Tracks.

Eric,

Let me add another option to your pallet of choices. I use a modified Barber Hauler. I don't know why somebody thought he should have a need to haul his barber, but, maybe it was a lousy shave. Who knows. Anyway, on mine, I've made the hauler a continuous loop around two blocks, shackled to the toe rail; one just ahead of the cockpit winch and one forward, about 8' from the bow. The loop is made of 3/16" StaSet (1400 lb tensile). It passes through the snap shackle of the jib block, around both blocks, then both bitter ends are tie to the shackle. So, if you pull on one of the lines, the jib block will travel. The trick is to lock it in place. So far, I've done this with, of all things, a clothes line tensioner (flunky, I know). I am building a set of blocks that will lock the line with a lever. But, truthfully, the block won't go anywhere unless you haul on a line. This set up works very well and costs about $50.

Now to placate the nay-sayers. Your sail is about 230 sf and will see about 400 pounds of load in a 20 knots of breeze. That's about 200 pounds on line that can take 1400 pounds [1400/2 (for knots) * 2 (because there's 2 of them)] At 30 knots (a) you should be motoring back by now (b) that's 450 pounds per line and still be way below safety for the Staset. Use Ronstan Series 40 blocks with a MWL of 880 pounds (I bought 2 for $10 each on EBAY).

Check out the jpg. Try it out an save some money. Or try it out with spare hardware, decide that it sucks, and then spend the money.


Gotta go before the boss comes around.

Don
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  #20  
Old 02-27-2014
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Re: Need help selecting Jib Tracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonScribner View Post
Eric,

Let me add another option to your pallet of choices. I use a modified Barber Hauler. I don't know why somebody thought he should have a need to haul his barber, but, maybe it was a lousy shave. Who knows. Anyway, on mine, I've made the hauler a continuous loop around two blocks, shackled to the toe rail; one just ahead of the cockpit winch and one forward, about 8' from the bow. The loop is made of 3/16" StaSet (1400 lb tensile). It passes through the snap shackle of the jib block, around both blocks, then both bitter ends are tie to the shackle. So, if you pull on one of the lines, the jib block will travel. The trick is to lock it in place. So far, I've done this with, of all things, a clothes line tensioner (flunky, I know). I am building a set of blocks that will lock the line with a lever. But, truthfully, the block won't go anywhere unless you haul on a line. This set up works very well and costs about $50.

Now to placate the nay-sayers. Your sail is about 230 sf and will see about 400 pounds of load in a 20 knots of breeze. That's about 200 pounds on line that can take 1400 pounds [1400/2 (for knots) * 2 (because there's 2 of them)] At 30 knots (a) you should be motoring back by now (b) that's 450 pounds per line and still be way below safety for the Staset. Use Ronstan Series 40 blocks with a MWL of 880 pounds (I bought 2 for $10 each on EBAY).

Check out the jpg. Try it out an save some money. Or try it out with spare hardware, decide that it sucks, and then spend the money.


Gotta go before the boss comes around.

Don
Funny, there are two small blocks attached to the toerail about six feet apart just aft of mid-boat that were there when I bought it. I've wondered what, exactly, the OP used them for. I think your post explains it.
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