Which lines to test? Abrasion testing. - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > On Board > Gear & Maintenance
 Not a Member? 
  #1  
Old 03-09-2014
pdqaltair's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 2,104
Thanks: 1
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 6
pdqaltair is on a distinguished road
Which lines to test? Abrasion testing.

For an upcoming writing project, I've set up a machine that will saw lines back-and-forth over a variable abrading surface under variable pressure and deflection angle. While my operating range is limited, I'm pleased that I can at least produce frayed lines that resemble frayed lines I've replaced over the years, with no melting or cutting.

What lines should I be testing. I will certainly go to the common chandleries and get a few feet of everything. That much is obvious. But are there commercial or fishing lines that work well on recreational boats that are unknown to much of the boating public? Suggest a source and I'll give it a whirl.
__________________
(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #2  
Old 03-09-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: western LI sound, L.I., N.Y.
Posts: 446
Thanks: 1
Thanked 10 Times in 10 Posts
Rep Power: 11
HUGOSALT is on a distinguished road
Re: Which lines to test? Abrasion testing.

Contact R & W Ropes in New Bedford Ma.
Have been serving Commercial/fishing as well as recreational
mariners for many years. (climbers and safety/rescue as well)
Knowledgeable and helpful and might be able to sell/donate?
some bits and pieces as well.
Have been making some soft shackles out of Amsteel over the
winter (used some tubular webbing over some) will see over next
few seasons how they hold up...unless I read your article first.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #3  
Old 03-09-2014
pdqaltair's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 2,104
Thanks: 1
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 6
pdqaltair is on a distinguished road
Re: Which lines to test? Abrasion testing.

^^ Will contact.

I think most people find Amsteel soft-shackles to be rather wear resistant, and find a covering inconvenient. In my case, I simply go up a size if I'm concerned about wear. However, if there is an unavoidable rough spot, a cover will work better, since the cover floats.
__________________
(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #4  
Old 03-09-2014
RichH's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,752
Thanks: 9
Thanked 64 Times in 57 Posts
Rep Power: 15
RichH will become famous soon enough
Re: Which lines to test? Abrasion testing.

Go to ASTM.org and look up "abrasion testing - rope" etc.
No sense reinventing the wheel if there is already an established national/international standard test method already in effect.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #5  
Old 03-09-2014
MedSailor's Avatar
Closet Powerboater
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Anacortes PNW
Posts: 2,387
Thanks: 58
Thanked 50 Times in 42 Posts
Rep Power: 7
MedSailor is on a distinguished road
Re: Which lines to test? Abrasion testing.

Don't forget to get the really cheap stuff from the boating section of your local WalMart or camping store. Not everyone goes to West Marine and I have seen quite a bit of crappy looking (likely colored polypro) line on MacGregors and the like.

Are you going to test docklines as well? I never seem to chafe through running rigging, but docklines get replaced due to chafe with regularity. 8-plat, 12-plat, double braid, 3 strand etc would all be useful to know about for docking and anchoring purposes.

MedSailor
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I have a sauna on my boat, therefore I win.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #6  
Old 03-09-2014
pdqaltair's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 2,104
Thanks: 1
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 6
pdqaltair is on a distinguished road
Re: Which lines to test? Abrasion testing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH View Post
Go to ASTM.org and look up "abrasion testing - rope" etc.
No sense reinventing the wheel if there is already an established national/international standard test method already in effect.
Very true. I am aware of the method for yarn-on-yarn abrasion (D6611). Our method is related, but we are not testing the same thing. Did you have a specific method in mind?

I am a member. The challenge, of course, is that many ASTM rigs are too onerous for limited use. The second challenge is that they don't always measure what you want to test (there many not be an ASTM method for the characteristic of interest). In this case, for example, there are wear methods for ropes but not for chafing gear.

Some of my testing--I have some work on engine coolants coming up--follows ASTM procedure out the door. Other times the best that can be done is to copy the fundamental principles and practice good scientific method. Most often the challenge is to be certain you know what you are measuring. For example, in accelerated wear testing of rope you need to avoid heating problems, since that is a separate variable (certainly a very relevant variable in some high-load applications, but it is a separate variable).

Another factor is testing under widely varying conditions. Engine coolants, for example, are really tested only under engine operating conditions, which are relatively narrow and well understood. But rope chafe varies from high load on a sharp edge to light load against wood or something similarly benign. Clearly, there will be more than one set of tests. The reality is that cordage companies have their own methods, generally not ASTM; they each have specific interests, and so far as I have learned, no specific standard.

Fun stuff.
__________________
(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #7  
Old 03-09-2014
pdqaltair's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 2,104
Thanks: 1
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 6
pdqaltair is on a distinguished road
Re: Which lines to test? Abrasion testing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MedSailor View Post
Don't forget to get the really cheap stuff from the boating section of your local WalMart or camping store. Not everyone goes to West Marine and I have seen quite a bit of crappy looking (likely colored polypro) line on MacGregors and the like.

Are you going to test docklines as well? I never seem to chafe through running rigging, but docklines get replaced due to chafe with regularity. 8-plat, 12-plat, double braid, 3 strand etc would all be useful to know about for docking and anchoring purposes.

MedSailor
Absolutely. Of, course chafe guards and coatings (Maxijacket has been impressive) also make sense here.
__________________
(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #8  
Old 03-09-2014
hellosailor's Avatar
Plausible Deniability
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,434
Thanks: 1
Thanked 75 Times in 73 Posts
Rep Power: 10
hellosailor has a spectacular aura about hellosailor has a spectacular aura about
Re: Which lines to test? Abrasion testing.

I would expect the presence of salt crystals in the lines would significantly affect wear and chafe, so will you be salting and soaking them to replicate the condition of real lines in a saltwater environment?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #9  
Old 03-09-2014
sww914's Avatar
Aspiring to be a Mexican
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: La Cruz de Hunacaxtle, Mexico
Posts: 541
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 6
sww914 is on a distinguished road
Re: Which lines to test? Abrasion testing.

I'm glad that geeks like you are around so I can just read about it on the internet and then sound like an expert when I'm out walking the docks spewing "wisdom".
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #10  
Old 03-09-2014
pdqaltair's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Posts: 2,104
Thanks: 1
Thanked 24 Times in 24 Posts
Rep Power: 6
pdqaltair is on a distinguished road
Re: Which lines to test? Abrasion testing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
I would expect the presence of salt crystals in the lines would significantly affect wear and chafe, so will you be salting and soaking them to replicate the condition of real lines in a saltwater environment?
Internal wear, yes, but we're not testing that this time.

External wear on a smooth drum. Yes, and in fact when testing lines for mining it is normal to coat them with lime or other dust. But we will be using surfaces with sufficient roughness to overwhelm any salt crystal effect.

In fact, I'm willing to bet pre-soaking the lines in a standard lime slurry followed by surface cleaning and drying would be a more repeatable way of modeling this, since lime crystals are far more uniform and persistent. This seems to be the loose industry standard method, if there is such a thing.

A good thought.

----

I will, pre-wash all of the lines several cycles to remove those spinning lubricants that would wash-off in the first year or so anyway. This is a standard part of testing lines for durability (a major manufacturer had me do this in a prior testing program).
__________________
(when asked how he reached the starting holds on a difficult rock climbing problem that clearly favored taller climbers - he was perhaps 5'5")

"Well, I just climb up to them."

by Joe Brown, English rock climber




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
just testing abrahamx Looking for Companionship... 1 08-31-2013 10:22 PM
Size & Type: Dock lines vs. Mooring lines JordanH Gear & Maintenance 23 05-19-2011 10:29 PM
Arco Winches Sheet Abrasion matt2 Gear & Maintenance 0 05-12-2009 11:27 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:08 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.