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Any ideas on this Hooka type dive compressor system?

21K views 83 replies 22 participants last post by  Fstbttms 
#1 ·
Hi,
We are anchored in La Cruz Anchorage in Banderas Bay, Mexico and it is very active echo system. Every two weeks or sooner we need to clean our bottom; we have a 36' boat. admittedly we are in die need of a bottom job which we will get done in September (off season rates).


We have been using a dive tank and an old hooka yellow hose with a regulator that was given to us. We connected that to a stage one and then use a div tank on deck. We need to dinghy in the tank and take it for re-fill which is not easy every two weeks or so.


The problem is the dive tank air gets used up quickly. There is no solution for this that I am willing to do, like holding my breath etc.


You can see the dive tank up on the starboard side.
It could be the regulator on the yellow hose is a low pressure regulator for a hooka setup. About say 30 pis regulator and the tank is much higher so air is getting out even when we are not breathing. Any way this is not diving forum so I will skip all that and just say we want to get rid of the tank. But it is a money thing.
We have plenty of solar power on the boat so we would like to use a 12v compressor to supply endless amounts of air at a price we can afford, we are retired and on a small fixed income.


We have found one Hooka type setup we think may work fine. We could sell our current system here in Mexico where the prices are high for dive equipment to recover some of the costs.

This system can be had with a 35' hose, regulator and compressor. Uses 10 amps and is affordable. We can clean most of the bow are with a snorkel so 35' seems enough. We do the keel are and zincs and prop with the tank the rest we get with a snorkel.

So after all this does anyone have any experience with this system?

"*mask not included For those wanting to use a more conventional regulator a Promate regulator is included. 12v Hookah diving air compressor Power:120w 12V Weight: 9 lb *battery not included Lightweight aluminum with easy carry handle Uses our long life, oilless, efficient, DC motor designed for clean breathing. One of the advantages of this system is the low power draw of 10 amps of safe 12v DC current. With the average deep cycle marine battery you will have enough power for all day use. Also you can put the compressor and battery on a float and not be encumbered by the length of the hose. Satisfaction Guaranteed. Rated for 5 meters of depth. 25 ft (35 ft available add upgrade to cart) diving dedicated , food grade hookah hose, brass direct screw connection to air compressor Nose clip and ear plugs included. With this kit you will be swimming with the fishes! Please leave feedback and please tell your friends. International Customers give a minimum 6-10 business days for arrival."The system seems like it should do the job we are wanting it for, cleaning the bottom of our boat.

12v Electric Hookah DIVING KIT WITH PROMATE REGULATOR
Thank you,
Chip
 
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#2 ·
On the face of this, these things occur to me:

--What pressure tank are you using? I'm fat and don't have good breathing skills and I got probably 3-4 bottom cleanings out of my 3000lb tank
--Are there possibly leaks in the pressure gauge on your 1st stage there, or maybe elsewhere in your hose system? Is that regulator not hooked directly to the yellow (long) hose, so you have another possibility of a connection leakage?

My rig is a single 50' hose run directly from regulator to first stage. I have a tiny little gauge right there at the first stage, no hose and big gauge rig like that.

If you change over to your suggested system, (I've never heard of 'promate,') you'll have to tote around either a battery of some sort or have some pretty long wires to get power to the compressor, yes?

I think Fstbottoms is here, he has had good suggestions for bottom cleaning rigs in the past, see if you can get him online
 
#6 ·
--What pressure tank are you using? I'm fat and don't have good breathing skills and I got probably 3-4 bottom cleanings out of my 3000lb tank
--Are there possibly leaks in the pressure gauge on your 1st stage there, or maybe elsewhere in your hose system? Is that regulator not hooked directly to the yellow (long) hose, so you have another possibility of a connection leakage?
Our tank reads 2000 when it is full.

We had a first stage with
Line to dive vest
Line to regulator
Tank gauge

We left the tank gauge and removed the two others. Then we attached the yellow hose and plugged the other. That was it.
Yes we may have leaks.

It is a money and convince thing. We can put the old system back together, regulator and dive vest hose and tank gauge with stage one and sell it and the tank. Then we can sell the yellow Hooka hose and regulator. That will give us some pesos for something else. Not a lot but a regular 12v dive system is 3 times what they want for this little system.

We go down 5 1\2 feet to the bottom of the boat and that is it. Not as deep as a pool. But then again the mention of working while under water and this pump not handling it is a concern.

Another issue is filling the tank south of Puerto Vallarta. Not likely or easy.
Although with 3-4 bottom cleanings the tank could take us to Hualtulco and back next cruising season after we get a bottom job.



OK why a hood? I wear cotton in my ears after getting a tiny crab in one of my ears a while back. It was a bugger to get out.
We just got out of the water and rinsed off a lot of little crabs from cleaning the water line, they like the bottom of the boat.
The water is clean and fairly clear. Some skates and other critters but they keep clear of my wife and I.
Chip
 
#3 · (Edited)
The 12-volt hookah system you linked to is really more of a pool toy than anything else. I suspect that it will be overtaxed, trying to deliver you a comfortable air supply while you are doing physical labor underwater.

BTW- hull cleaning without wearing a hood is probably not a good idea (as per your pic.)
 
#5 ·
BTW- I did a quick Google search for the compressor in the "Diving USA" setup. I found the identical item all over ebay. It is a fish pond/aquarium pump and looks like it sells for about $70 new. The OP already has pretty much everything else he would be getting if he bought the complete Diving USA hookah, so why spend the additional $300 dollars?

 
#25 ·
I purchased a Deck Snorkel 3.5 years ago, and have been immensely happy with it. During the day, the solar panels keep up with the unit, so it doesn't even deplete the batteries. When I purchased this unit, there were 3 on the market and after a severe comparison, this one from BC, Canada, though a bit dearer, seemed to be the better built unit.
I wouldn't go back to a tank set up or scuba gear to clean or work on the boat, ever again. This set up needs no hydro, no big tanks to ding the boat, no filling station, very little maintenance and no time limit in the water.
My only suggestion would be to get a double rig. When I purchased mine, I couldn't imagine I'd ever have a sailing companion again, but now, we have to take turns using it for work or fun.
 
#26 ·
No cruising friends with a dive compressor aboard? Geez a 3000 lb fill should get you ages at what say 8' of water? Are you a smoker? Obese? Way out of shape? Maybe spend the morning snorkeling/cleaning on it and build up your fitness level.
 
#30 · (Edited)
The Thomas 1020 (in your second set of pix) was the hull cleaning industry standard for years. They went out of production for a couple of years and hookah makers and hull cleaners moved on to other compressors (the 1020 is available again, but is difficult to find and much more expensive than it used to be.) I now use the Thomas 1207.



 
#32 ·
Our plan here is this:

Check and fix any leaks from the dive tank to the regulator.

We put this one on the yellow hose, it worked on the dive tank.
We switched out the regulator that came with the yellow hose to the one that came with the dive tank. I think the yellow hose regulator is rated for a lower psi and air is being forced out when I am not breathing it. Check for leaks at other places also.


I am not convinced it will not leak so we will stop at Vallarta UnderSea to have them check the fittings. We also picked up the re-filled dive tank today.
Our beater car to the left.

If we can get 2-3 bottom cleanings from one dive tank then that will make life a lot easier for the rest of this cruising season.


This summer we will purchase the Resun MPQ906 DC Air Compressor Pump 12V unless we find even a better one of the same type. There are at least a few of these type of pumps available and this is so far the best I have found. Some are rated for more air and some are 6v, 12v and 24v.
The regulator that comes with the kit, along with the pump and hose is not really a regulator. It does not regulate the air flow. The air just goes through the regulator and if you do not breath it goes on out into the water.


You can get a less expensive kit with a snorkel with the yellow hose attached to the snorkel and it does the same thing. So once we get the pump we will connect a snorkel to our existing yellow hose and use it that way. This is not a problem as I have a C-Pap machine that I breath with at night because I have Sleep Apnea. The breathing machine acts the same way as the Resun MPQ906 DC Air Compressor Pump.I was tempted to use the C-Pap machine for the bottom cleaning but do not want to take the chance of messing it up.
So there you have the plan. I will let you know the final outcome just in case this all works out good - it may help others.
Thanks,
Chip
 
#34 · (Edited)
Here is what I expect the OP will find when he uses the aquarium pump- it will deliver an adequate air supply at or very near the surface, but once Chip starts exerting himself during a hull cleaning and moving up and down the hull, he will overbreathe the compressor. Deep breaths will simply demand more air than the little compressor can physically supply. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it. If this unit was capable of providing a comfortable air supply for hull cleaners, we'd see hull cleaners using it. But we don't.
 
#35 ·
Hi,
We just left Vallarta UnderSea and Armando calibrated both of our regulators. The one originally on the yellow hose had a small leak. He corrected it and test the other. Both are now working perfect. Armando also gave us some O rings for the dive tank valve. We connected the stage one and the yellow hose with the other gear and tested the whole thing and found none.

The tank should be stamped with the pressure rating. In our case I think it may be 2400 because last time we got it filled the tank gauge read 2000 but it could have been somewhat higher as I did not look that good. I'll check that out again. We had just got it hydro'static inspected and filled.
Chip
 
#37 ·
A few points.

1. How long a tank will last is based on its volume not on its pressure.
I have the following tanks in my collection
6 cft tank that fills to 3000psi
80 cft tank that fills to 3000 psi
160 cft in a set of double tanks that fills to 3000.
260 cft in a set of doubles tanks that fills to just under 3500 psi.

The individual quoted a 3000 psi tank probably has an AL 80 cft tank
The original poster looks to have an old school 71.2 cft tank that
has 71.2 cft when fill to 2475 psi. Its older so dive shops following the
rules will likely only fill it to 2250 psi where it has 65 cft.

2. Gas/Air consumption
It's all based on your surface consumption rate. Mine is around 0.4 cft/min.
When we plan on how much gas is needed for a recreational dive to deal with an out of air situation - shared gas we use 1.0 cft/min as usually beginners get excited when this happens. Cleaning the boat you are working hard. Cleaning the bottom of a boat with a worn-out bottom paint is going to need to scrub harder then one whose boat was recently painted.
Gas consumption increases with depth as the ambient pressure increases with depth. At 33 feet the ambient pressure is twice what it is at the surface so your gas consumption is going to be twice your surface consumption.

4. Tank life
So lets assume with your workload you are breathing 2cft/min. Breathing the tank at the waterline your 65 cft tank should last if 30 mins if we leave a 5 cft reserve in the tank (good way to keep water out of the tank). At 33 feet your consumption would jump 4 cft/min and the tank would last 15 mins. So for the depths you are diving and work you are doing your 65 tank should last you somewhere between 15 and 30mins. An 80 cft tank (actually 77cft @ 3000 psi, but marketed as an 80 cft tank) with the 5 cft reserve would last between 18 and 36 mins.

5. Pressure in hose to second stage.
The purpose of the first stage that mounts to your tank is too reduce the pressure from tank pressure to something like 140 psi + ambient pressure.
You are keeping the tank at the surface so the ambient pressure is 14.7 psi or call it 15 so a total of 155 psi. Normally the first stage is carried on your back so the pressure in the hose increases at you descent. At the surface 155 psi, at 33 feet ~170 psi (140 psi + 2*15), at 99 feet ~200 psi (140 psi + 4*15psi). It might be cranked up a bit to better perform at depth since you are not taking the first stage with you to depth.
The second stage is designed to reduce this intermediate pressure to ambient pressure at depth (~15 psi at the surface and ~30 psi at 33 feet). If its hard to breath at depth the first stage should have a way to adjust the pressure. The second stage may be adjusted to work at lower pressure

6. Air compressor to drive the second stage.
Ideally you are going to want a compressor that can supply gas at ~150 psi and a volume of around 4 cft/min. A small compressor may be able to supply the pressure but not the volume. You also want the compressor to put out clean dry air. Scuba compressors typically have filters. Oil in the compressor can result in Carbon Monoxide and oil in the air - things you want to avoid. Carbon Monoxide can kill you fairly quickly and oil will result in Lipoid pneumonia.

7. Scuba compressor
Sounds like its out of your budget. I have a couple of small high pressure scuba compressors. A Bauer Junior which pumps between 3 and 4 cft min. Assuming 3 cfg/min would take 20 mins of runtime to fill your scuba tank. My Rix 6A pumps at close to 6 cfg/min so it would take 10-12 mins to pump the same tank. Both came with gasoline powered engines to drive them the Rix was converted to a 110V AC motor. The Bauer sometimes lives in box in front of the mast on Crazy Fish. Its noisy and I try to run it when there is some decent wind blowing and neighbors are gone and the wife is off the boat. The wind helps to carry the noise and the exhaust gas from the gasoline motor away. When cruising I carried 2 85 cft tanks that would take an hour of runtime to fill both.

Due to the runtime to fill a tank, the noise level, etc I am normally not all that eager to fill the tanks of others who had scuba gear but not their own compressor.

The Bauer cost me something like $2500 a number of years. It was new, at the end of a boat show and they did not want to take it home so I got a deal. The Rix was bought used for $2000 if I remember correctly.

Regards
Marc Hall
Crazy Fish - Maintaining, Upgrading and Sailing a Crealock 37
 
#38 · (Edited)
Hi,
Just put together the tank and hose etc checking for leaks at the boat.

No leaks but it looks like the red tide is coming in.
Why does our tank only read 19000?

It was just filled, should it not go to 2400 or more?
I do not see anywhere on the tank where it is stamped for pressure.
OK just saw the post about the tank size ect.
"Its older so dive shops following the
rules will likely only fill it to 2250 psi where it has 65 cft."
I had this filled at the technical college in La Cruz so maybe that is why?
Instituto Tecnolologico De Bahia De Banderas
Thanks,
Chip
 
#39 ·
Look at the stampings on the tank up near the neck.

You should see DOT (Dept of transportation) or ICC (Interstate Commerce Commission ??) stamped into it.

You should see 3AA stamped into it. (3AA stands for a steel tank)

You should see 2250 stamped into it if its a 71.2 cft tank
You might see 1800 stamped into if its a 60 cft tank.

Your pressure gauge may be off or the shop that filled it, fill it hot to rated pressure 2250 and its cooled downed to what it is reading now.

Marc Hall
Crazy Fish - Maintaining, Upgrading and Sailing a Crealock 37
 
#40 ·
"has 71.2 cft when fill to 2475 psi. Its older so dive shops following the
rules will likely only fill it to 2250 psi where it has 65 cft."

Mark, are you referring to the "plus stamp" nonsense?

In the northeast, no dive shop or hydro shop will perform a "plus" hydro on a tank. And yet, the DOT has issued a public letter stating that any tank which was originally plus rated, can be plus rated indefinitely afterwards. All the shop has to do is perform the pressure (elasticity) test to the higher rating, and if the tank passes, restamp it with a new plus rating.

The shops are all full of FUD about "gee, it needs special equipment...it needs special tests...it's illegal..." but the DOT is the source of the regulations, and they're on record as saying the industry is full of crap. Apparently the cave-diving shops in Florida know better and WILL perform a plus hydro, if the tank qualifies, but they're the exception to the farce.

AFAIK that's got nothing to do with steel or aluminum, that's an industry-wide game being played on all plus-rated tanks.

And you'll find that the capacity of a tank does indeed depend on the VOLUME of the tank, not just the pressure. Tanks are sometimes measured in liters, of volume of water they can contain. (Not in the US SCUBA hobby, but the same tanks. ) If you have a tank that has twice as much volume as my tank, at the same pressure you'll have twice as much capacity. At 2000 psi, the volume will determine capacity, in one tank versus another. ANY tank should be capable of a 2000psi fill, that's barely above the 1800psi "low pressure" cut off.
That's all part of why a modern steel tank has a much higher capacity than an Alu80, which has a much thicker tank wall, which gives it a reduced volume despite a similar size. And very different buoyancy characteristics, again because the volume with "no" pressure changes buoyancy when the tank is empty.

Pressure and volume: Two sides, same coin. Pressure you can adjust, with the fill. Volume you can't, unless you pour cement into the tank.
 
#41 ·
Yes I was referring to the + rating on the tank.
For a couple of years there was no hydro testing station that I could find in LA, Orange or San Diego county that would test for the + rating.

The shop use which opened a couple ago, "San Diego Divers" has been operating a hydro station from shortly after they opened and test all tanks capable of receiving a plus rating for a plus rating.
A quality shop.

Marc Hall
Crazy Fish - Maintaining, Upgrading and Sailing a Crealock 37
 
#42 ·
I figure they can't all be lying *stards engaged in a conspiracy. So it must be, that none of them want to spend the $125 for the "+" punch tool. Standard punch sets include the letters and numbers, but if you want to stamp a "+" then you have to special order the + punch as a custom punch and they're not something that's available off the shelf.

Or...could they all really be so dumb they just don't know how to put the extra pressure in the tank, and do the same math they do on every other test? Nah. Gotta be the cost of the punch, and the (horrors!) endless confusion that dive shops would have, offering and ordering two different kinds of hydro tests. So terribly difficult.
 
#43 ·
Hi,
Can anyone find this compressor on line?
12v compressor at eBay

I have looked a lot and can only come up with this one but the specs are not the same. There are different models and I think this is the biggest.

Specs:
VOLT DC12V

POWER 120W

PRESSURE 0.12MPa

OUTPUT 170L/min @ 13.5V

160L/min @ 12V

WEIGHT 3.9 kg

SIZE 253x138x151mm

I still can not decide between the DeWalt or this 12v.
Thanks,
Chip
 
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