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  #151  
Old 03-31-2014
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Re: safe cooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by christian.hess View Post
I get that bud...sprry if it sounded like a snip

get whatever fuel you have best access too and enjoy the most...you have options up there so that is great for you

I just didnt see what the boat model had to do with anything but obviously if youre not ever going to travel with the boat at least overseas then yeah no issues with alcohol

having said that I posted before that even when I was in berkeley not every place had alcohol...and west marine was way expensive and it was more of a hassle than simple propane



for whatever thats worth

hope you find a cooking method that suits and pleases you

its very apparent that you have OPTIONS
i wouldn't say you sounded snippy. just like you were feeling a bit attacked annd it's no wonder. this thread has, like so many threads, gotten a bit hostile from time to time. i know we all have a passion for sailing but i'm not quite sure why that almost always has to turn into conflict and hoatility any time there is more than one opinion voiced.

everyone has an opinion and the purpose of threads like this is to hear as many of those opinions as possible to help in making an educaed decision. not sure why the multitude of opinions means hurt feelings or hurled insults( you know, because i'm obviously too chicken s%$# to sail because i want the safest fuel possible so it's not my boat i find burned up at the marina).

anyhow, you are right. i have learned i have a number of options to choose from....and that is good.
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  #152  
Old 03-31-2014
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Re: safe cooking

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Originally Posted by guitarguy56 View Post
Math is wrong... it should be 1500/60 minutes or 25 watts per minute... not 1500 watts per minute...
Watts do not have a time component, they are an instantaneous consumption. Watt/hours have a time component. None of your math makes any sense because of this mistake.

The pair of group 24 batteries in my house bank are rated to 160AH total, but I can only draw them down about halfway to get good service life. That is 80AH at 12 volts, which is 960 watt hours.

It is easy to compute power consumption for an ideal system. It takes 4180 joules to raise 1 liter of water 1 degree C. If the water in my boat's tanks is at 15C (60F) and I want to raise it to 100C (boiling) then I need 4180 * 85 joules, which is about 100 watt hours (98.69 to be exact). No system is 100% efficient, this is the best possible result that you can get.

1 liter isn't a lot of water. Making a basic pasta dinner with 4 liters of water and a half liter of sauce on the ideal induction heater would consume about 450 watt hours, or almost half of my house battery system. It would take my 30 watt solar panel 15 hours at noon-sun (or 3 Seattle summer days) to recover from that use assuming an ideal battery system. Again, nothing is ideal.

I don't see how using an electric stove on a sailboat makes any sense unless the boat is mostly used at dock and is tied into the power grid.
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  #153  
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Re: safe cooking

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Originally Posted by guitarguy56 View Post
Outbound... I'll take it you've never been around or exposed to induction stoves or ovens... let's just say I can place my hand directly on the stove surface while it is running about the only thing that will happen is smearing the black onyx surface with my hand oils... try that with a regular electric stove and I understand how your second shift crew would be burnt. Doesn't and will never happen on the surface of an induction stove... So in reality your rant doesn't apply here. As I mentioned my next boat will be entirely induction stove/oven and I see marine units are already hitting the market... but why wait? As mentioned I have my Honda 2000 but never ever ran it to make a meal using the induction stove. This is after all on a 25 foot boat... why the criticism if it should plainly work on a much larger boat with generators charging the batteries and hefty solar panels charging, and Torquedoes up the rear charging away?
that's one heck of a safety feature.
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  #154  
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Re: safe cooking

Jack, given your boat, budget, and aspirations, I'd say go with the alcohol stove. Why go through the expense and space to put in propane? All fuel is dangerous to one degree or another and as you can see by this discussion, the differences are getting down to hair splitting. Boatus says propane is safe as evidenced through the claims they payout. I have owned boats with alcohol for 13 years and propane for 15. I had one fire with alcohol and so far, none with the propane. My experience may not be everybody's. But I don't see it as the fuel for you. Nor do I see coal as your fuel (the cooking fuel of choice for over a hundred years before kero took over).
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  #155  
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Re: safe cooking

Guitarguy, my boat runs on 12 volt DC so I divide watts by 12V to get amps, not 110V as you would for shore power. Do I assume correctly that these stoves only work on 110VAC? Then I would also have to calculate the loss going through the inverter. Is there an induction oven too? What is the efficiency of that unit?
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  #156  
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Re: safe cooking

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Originally Posted by captain jack View Post
i wouldn't say you sounded snippy. just like you were feeling a bit attacked annd it's no wonder. this thread has, like so many threads, gotten a bit hostile from time to time. i know we all have a passion for sailing but i'm not quite sure why that almost always has to turn into conflict and hoatility any time there is more than one opinion voiced.

everyone has an opinion and the purpose of threads like this is to hear as many of those opinions as possible to help in making an educaed decision. not sure why the multitude of opinions means hurt feelings or hurled insults( you know, because i'm obviously too chicken s%$# to sail because i want the safest fuel possible so it's not my boat i find burned up at the marina).

anyhow, you are right. i have learned i have a number of options to choose from....and that is good.
A professionally installed propane system will not leave your boat burned up at the marina.
Throw a couple of rusted out 1# bombs in the lazerette and you might have a different outcome.
A properly installed system has a shutoff at the propane locker that is vented to the outside (preferably from the bottom)
When the solenoid is shut off there is no gas to be had inside the cabin regardless of what has happened to the lines.
Propane explosion while boat us unattended at the marina, negligence is most likely the culprit.
Also, is this actually an explosion caused by propane, or a simple fire due to something like poor electrical?
Maybe the safest course of action is just not to cook onboard?
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Re: safe cooking

4.180 Joules for 1 gram of water, 4180 joules for 1 liter (1000 grams) of water. I'll go correct my post too.
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  #158  
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Re: safe cooking

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Originally Posted by Boredop View Post
Or does this have to do with your girlfriend again? Scared she is going to blow up the boat? Come to think of it, there are a lot of hard surfaces around too, better get out the foam padding.....

oh, yes. that's right. because i was thinking of fabricating a jib boom and going self tacking i was just destined to be a powerboater before long. funny. it's been 18 years, sailing, so far and i've never even used a motor on a boat, before.

i'd love to know why you are so easily offended with how i consider outfitting my own boat? what's it to you? i'm not telling you how you should set your boat up. you don't hear me implying that you are a non-sailing pansy if you use a motor to leave and return to a dock. i figure it's your business. but, obviously, anything i consider about my boat IS enough of your business for you to take offense and fling fairly blatant insults about my fitness to sail.

no. it has nothing to do with safety while i am on the boat. i figure i am competent enough to handle that. i am worried about getting that phone call from the marina. i already saw one black and burned out shell of a boat at the marina, this year. i don't want them to call and tell me that mine has met that fate.

again, i think it's foolish to totally ignore the fact that propane is the most dangerous cooking fuel on a boat. i think it's just a point of wisdom to explore the options. you know...not just be a sheep and do the same thing everyone else does because everyone else is doing it.

i have to wonder, are you threatened by people who consider different options than you or just easily butthurt if everyone doesn't automatically do things the way you do?

loads of boats have used, and do use, jib booms and self tacking jibs. that's a fairly traditional set up. lots of people use fuels other than propane. does it also bother you that there are people converting their 'perfectly good' bermuda sloops to junk rigs? do facts like these keep you awake at night? is that why keep popping up in my threads telling me i don't have gonads enough to sail?

i can't tell you how many times sailors in bigger boats have told me they thought i was crazy to be sailing my little dinghy out in wind as heavy as i often do....just think what they'd think if they knew that i don't know how to swim. but, you're right. i'm too timid to sail. i better sell all three of my sailboats.
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Last edited by captain jack; 03-31-2014 at 11:10 PM.
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  #159  
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Re: safe cooking

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Originally Posted by Alex W View Post
4.180 Joules for 1 gram of water, 4180 joules for 1 liter (1000 grams) of water. I'll go correct my post too.

Yes, I figured it out..deleted my post..thanks
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  #160  
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Re: safe cooking

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeB View Post
Jack, given your boat, budget, and aspirations, I'd say go with the alcohol stove. Why go through the expense and space to put in propane? All fuel is dangerous to one degree or another and as you can see by this discussion, the differences are getting down to hair splitting. Boatus says propane is safe as evidenced through the claims they payout. I have owned boats with alcohol for 13 years and propane for 15. I had one fire with alcohol and so far, none with the propane. My experience may not be everybody's. But I don't see it as the fuel for you. Nor do I see coal as your fuel (the cooking fuel of choice for over a hundred years before kero took over).
coal. boy that would take up some space on board and cause some real soot.

actually, if i was to decide to go propane i'd want an outside tank locker and i really don't see the room for that, on my boat. it would just take up too much space. i do think that pressurized alcohol will be my best bet, as you said.
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