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post #281 of 301 Old 04-04-2014
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Re: safe cooking

My experience includes non-pressurized alcohol (Origo), propane, and CNG. I've had CNG on my sailboat for the past 18 years and am very comfortable with it from a safety standpoint. That said, you need to plan on CNG exchanges/refills, as others have noted that it can be very inconvenient if you run out on a cruise. My boat came with one tank, but I added a second after running out of gas on a cruise and not finding CNG nearby.

CNG is also relatively expensive. My last exchange (Westerly , RI) cost $41 for 80 cu. ft. Several years ago I replaced my 2-stage regulator at a cost of $450. Still and all, I wouldn't switch to propane because of the safety factor of having a gas that is lighter than air. If I were to cruise farther afield and found that CNG was not available I would reconsider.
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post #282 of 301 Old 04-04-2014
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Re: safe cooking

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Originally Posted by Puddin'_Tain View Post
Actually, the Mexico to which that page refers is Mexico, MO (Missouri).
Ooops! We need an emoticon 'wiping egg from my face'

Looking at the indexmundi numbers that I referenced to earlier, there is no question that kerosene consumption is much lower than it used to be, for whatever reason. But the fact that Zeehag cannot find it in his immediate neighborhood (and that his local friends tell him they can't either) does not prove that the stuff has entirely disappeared in the whole country. In particular since the published numbers says otherwise.

At the very least, every single airport in the country has it by the thousands of gallons...
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post #283 of 301 Old 04-05-2014
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Re: safe cooking

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
might be a really great idea to research cooking fuels in the locales you plan on cruising so you can figure out what kind of cooking you want to do on board at sea in a seaway and at anchor in bumpy and in smooth anchorages before committing self to anything.
there are many miles between the dream stage and inside usa cruising and out in the world of omygodswhatami gonna cook with., there isnt alcohol nor cng in mexico..nor kerosene... omy now what me gonna do as i refused to use propane on board ,..yada yada yada.....(as well as refused to listen to that crazy bitch who is actually out in mexico cruising and seeking items friends request....)
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friends of mine live in mexico in houses. they have lived here longer than have i, and they let me know what is not available here for citizens and turistas and other non military folks.
I think you are misinformed.

Also, you tell people to do research and then beat them up for doing it and finding that what you say does not seem to be true. Our own brand of academic peer review, if you will.

Oh - I'm not in Mexico either. It has been a while since I was there but I'm pretty sure I would have noticed if they had regulated availability of something as fundamental as kerosene.

You should be able to find petróleo in hardware stores. With a little work you can likely find an airport that will sell you Jet A-1. Unlikely to find it in service stations. It would take work to source but it should be possible.

Propane is the best choice of cooking fuel for cruisers today in my opinion.

sail fast and eat well, dave
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post #284 of 301 Old 04-05-2014
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Re: safe cooking

its available guys...just not often called kerosene as we know it...its primary use down here in central america is as a solvent for paints and the like or as a cleaning agent for mechanics, motor rebuild places...etc...

petroleo sounds right for mexico but I cant remember...in guatemala its solvente as well...

basically I was researching all this as I wanted to make a home brew octane and fuel cleaner for my racing offroad motorcycle I had a while back

I needed a mix of toulene, kerosene and some other goodies...basically I could not find pure toulene and when getting specific about kerosene I just couldnt risk it with the mislabelling of the word kerosene down here so I avoided doing so...

anywhoo

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post #285 of 301 Old 04-05-2014
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Re: safe cooking

Have an Origo and love it. No problem filling the canisters if you take them out of the gimballed stove and with the gaskets evaporation hasn't been an issue.

What I do find worrying is how quickly the CO level goes up in the cabin (and I am sure this will be true for all combustive stoves that do not vent outside). Used to be tempted to keep the hatch closed when it's really cold and wet to make a quick cuppa until I got my alarm telling me ! More worrying to have any open combustion inside the cabin for heating like the "heat pal". Origo used to make a combined ethanol and electric cooker, so at least when you are on shore power you could cook with electricity. Haven't seen that around for a while ...

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post #286 of 301 Old 04-05-2014
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Re: safe cooking

Christian, if you can't find 'kerosene' trying asking for it under it's British name.

Paraffin Oil.

That might apply to other places outside of the US as well. "Kerosene" is a Colonial term, in fact a US trademark from 1854. It is not a material, it is a brand of material.

The way we baffle the world expecting to find a Kleenex (brand of facial tissue) or some Scotch (brand of self-adhesive cellophane) tape.



I would be surprised if the inefficient combustion from an unpressurized Origo stove was putting a higher amount of CO in the combustion products. Along with the gobs of water they put out. Someone who cares can look that one up. (G)
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post #287 of 301 Old 04-05-2014
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Re: safe cooking

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Originally Posted by FinallySailing View Post
Have an Origo and love it. No problem filling the canisters if you take them out of the gimballed stove and with the gaskets evaporation hasn't been an issue.

What I do find worrying is how quickly the CO level goes up in the cabin (and I am sure this will be true for all combustive stoves that do not vent outside). Used to be tempted to keep the hatch closed when it's really cold and wet to make a quick cuppa until I got my alarm telling me ! More worrying to have any open combustion inside the cabin for heating like the "heat pal". Origo used to make a combined ethanol and electric cooker, so at least when you are on shore power you could cook with electricity. Haven't seen that around for a while ...
Actually this is one of the great benefits of propane. No appreciable amount of CO. The bi-products of combustion are CO2 and H2O. That's why you see so many propane stoves and ovens in campers, trailers, boats etc without venting.

I have a sauna on my boat, therefore I win.
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post #288 of 301 Old 04-05-2014
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Re: safe cooking

"That's why you see so many propane stoves and ovens in "
I knew the guy who almost died from the original "Hot Walter" propane heater in a boat shower. Passed out from the unvented CO produced by that unit, which knocked the company and the general design off the marine market.

So, maybe less CO, but still plenty enough to kill.
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post #289 of 301 Old 04-05-2014
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Re: safe cooking

Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Deaths Associated with Camping -- Georgia, March 1999

Not a recent publication and perhaps the design of propane stoves has significantly improved to reduce the risk of incomplete combustion since. Thinking where most of the stuff,that budget sailors like myself use, is being made, I doubt it. Point that I wanted to make is: everybody seemed to worry about specific issues with different combustive fuels (ethanol vs paraffin vs propane etc ...) . We shouldn't forget that if you burn something in a small closed space there is a risk of exposure to carbon monoxide. Now the said cup of tea will bring my CO meter up to 70-80 (ish) PPM. Won't kill you, but if that was your cup before going to sleep you'll feel pretty dreadful the next morning.

Yet my heart hammers now, yearning anew
wanting the steep salt-water road
longing with lust to roam rough seas, alone
to seek out some far foreign shore


From "The Seafarer", an Anglo-Saxon 10th century manuscript.
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post #290 of 301 Old 04-05-2014
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Re: safe cooking

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
"That's why you see so many propane stoves and ovens in "
I knew the guy who almost died from the original "Hot Walter" propane heater in a boat shower. Passed out from the unvented CO produced by that unit, which knocked the company and the general design off the marine market.

So, maybe less CO, but still plenty enough to kill.
Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of that. I saw an on demand hot water heater on a recent survey that wasn't vented and it's removal was recommended. There's something missing to this story because NONE of the propane stoves that I've ever seen are vented. I kept a CO monitor on my boat that gives numerical readings and it never registered a single PPM from my propane stove. Once it registered a bit from my kerosene Aladdin lamp when I didn't have it adjusted properly, but then again, that's kerosene.

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