Bottom paint, not sure I believe the Interlux advice.. - SailNet Community
 1Likes
  • 1 Post By RichH
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #1 of 10 Old 04-01-2014 Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Maryland
Posts: 83
Thanks: 6
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 4
 
Bottom paint, not sure I believe the Interlux advice..

I posted a question on the Interlux forum (yachtpaint.com) on how to apply micron extra (ablative bottom paint) on to freshly applied West System epoxy (still "hot" or tacky but not fully cured) epoxy. The response was to treat it just like cured epoxy: wait for full cure (3 - 7 days), apply Interprotect 2000e, and then apply micron while Interprotect is thumbprint tacky.

That just doesn't seem right to me. I had always heard that bottom paints adhered best when applied hot, but I didn't think it mattered whether it was West System epoxy or Interlux's Interprotect epoxy..

I wonder if this is just the corporate CYA response and not entirely grounded in practicality?

What do you guys think?

Here's to hoping Fastbttms joins this thread..

One more bottom paint question: What is the best way to prep old ablative for a new and different type of ablative bottom paint ? Interlux will say to sand with 80 grit, wipe with special thinner 216, apply 1 coat of primocon, then bottom paint..but I want to hear what experience you have or methods you guys are familiar with. (I was thinking of sanding, wiping with xylene, and then applying bottom.)

Thanks as always!
Reefpoints is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 10 Old 04-01-2014
Senior Member
 
RichH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,456
Thanks: 24
Thanked 153 Times in 142 Posts
Rep Power: 16
 
Re: Bottom paint, not sure I believe the Interlux advice..

I 'used to' hot coat (interlux) bottom paint to freshly applied epoxy barrier coats, etc. Eventually the ablative bottom coat will fail AT the interface between the barrier and the first layer of old bottom paint and the failure will be loss of adhesion and huge FLAKES of missing bottom paint.

My chemical knowledge, and in spite of Interlux recommendations, now leads me to: let the barrier fully cure for several days, then wash/scrub with HOT water and soap to remove any possibility of 'amine blush', let cure some more, wash again with HOT water after sanding with 80 grit ...... and then apply the new bottom paint. I find this lasts much longer and I dont seem to have the frequency of bottom paint adhesion failures of the initial bottom paint layers.
benesailor likes this.
RichH is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #3 of 10 Old 04-01-2014
I don't discuss my member
 
Fstbttms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 2,184
Thanks: 5
Thanked 26 Times in 26 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Bottom paint, not sure I believe the Interlux advice..

My advice is to follow the Interlux rep's advice. They aren't in the business of steering you wrong.
Fstbttms is online now  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #4 of 10 Old 04-01-2014
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: New Orleans Louisiana
Posts: 2,353
Thanks: 7
Thanked 82 Times in 78 Posts
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Bottom paint, not sure I believe the Interlux advice..

Unless you have a degree in coatings, and have specific knowledge of this paint, I would assume that the advice from interlux is far superior to any Internet forum advice. They spend millions in R&D to test how to apply it. Even a regular bottom painter isn't going to have their level of expertise.

Greg Rubin
Attorney
Stumble is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #5 of 10 Old 04-01-2014
me at 67!
 
deniseO30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bristol pa
Posts: 6,925
Thanks: 55
Thanked 125 Times in 114 Posts
Rep Power: 10
   
Re: Bottom paint, not sure I believe the Interlux advice..

I made the mistake of not putting the bottom paint on right after the barrier coat of 200E Now the bottom paint is not well adhered to the epoxy.. but it's not a terrible thing. Hindsight means more work since cured 200E would need to be sanded to give bottom paint better adhesion.

Denise, Bristol PA, Oday 30. On Tidal Delaware River, Anchor Yacht Club.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My last project!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


My boat is sold!
deniseO30 is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #6 of 10 Old 04-01-2014
Senior Moment Member
 
SloopJonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 11,447
Thanks: 59
Thanked 69 Times in 66 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Bottom paint, not sure I believe the Interlux advice..

If you still have your arms attached after prepping the bottom for an Interprotect job, go over it again, after cure, with 80 grit on one of these sanding boards. It will give you a very fair bottom, ready for paint. I've never had a flaking problem doing it that way.

Optionally, you can use the board BEFORE the coats of Interprotect and hot coat the bottom paint but you end up with whatever surface was left after rolling on the Interprotect.
Attached Thumbnails
001.jpg   002.jpg  

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.

Last edited by SloopJonB; 04-01-2014 at 11:00 PM.
SloopJonB is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #7 of 10 Old 04-01-2014 Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Maryland
Posts: 83
Thanks: 6
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Bottom paint, not sure I believe the Interlux advice..

Ok, I'll follow the Interlux advice. I was really hoping to have the project done in a day - both blister repair and bottom paint touch-up all tidied up.

With these temperatures the epoxy will need a week before I can apply 2000e. Better to do it right I suppose..

Thanks all!
Reefpoints is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #8 of 10 Old 04-01-2014
Senior Member
 
bljones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South Coast Ontario
Posts: 8,469
Thanks: 35
Thanked 90 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 8
   
Re: Bottom paint, not sure I believe the Interlux advice..

Your epoxy has to be fully cured and deblushed before antifouling can be applied. Ideally, Interprotect would be the "finish" barrier coat between the West (asuming it was applied to fair and fill imperfections in the hull) and the bottom paint. The idea behind rolling Interprotect epoxy paint over the west epoxy is that it provides a completely uniform surface for the bottom paints to chemically bond to, and seals the underlying epoxy. then apply your ablative while the barrier coat is tacky.

It's 5 o'clock somewhere:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bljones is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #9 of 10 Old 04-01-2014 Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Maryland
Posts: 83
Thanks: 6
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 4
 
Re: Bottom paint, not sure I believe the Interlux advice..

Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
The idea behind rolling Interprotect epoxy paint over the west epoxy is that it provides a completely uniform surface for the bottom paints to chemically bond to, and seals the underlying epoxy. then apply your ablative while the barrier coat is tacky.
That's exactly what doesn't compute to me. West epoxy doesn't need a sealant. West epoxy IS a barrier coat. I don't understand the difference between (a) applying ablative to a tacky Interlux barrier coat or (b) applying ablative to a tacky West System barrier coat. I'm not saying you are wrong - I just might be thick headed!

I thought the amine blush only forms well after the tacky stage, into the final cure stage and when exposed to air, especially humid air. To my (admittedly non-chemist) brain, it seems that if the west is coated with bottom paint while still tacky, then 1) no amine blush will form since it is cut off from air, and (2) the west system might chemically link somewhat to the bottom paint?

Perhaps the difference is that the 2000e is a COMPLETELY non-blushing formula of epoxy and that's why it is better suited for the bottom paint?
Reefpoints is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
post #10 of 10 Old 04-01-2014
Senior Member
 
bljones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: South Coast Ontario
Posts: 8,469
Thanks: 35
Thanked 90 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 8
   
Re: Bottom paint, not sure I believe the Interlux advice..

Okay, I am a little confused. If you have added a thickener like colloidal silica to the epoxy to use if for filling blisters and fairing, it needs a coat of unthickened epoxy as a barrier coat and that epoxy has to cure.


From West's own site:
WEST SYSTEM | Use Guides - Barrier Coating

"Apply a minimum of two coats of WEST SYSTEM epoxy for an effective moisture barrier. Apply three coats if sanding is to be carried out. Moisture protection will increase with additional coats and, in the case of osmosis repair and protection, six coats or about a thickness of 600 microns must be applied. Six coats, with 422 Barrier Coat Additive™ in the final five coats, provides maximum moisture protection. Additives or pigments should not be added to the first coat. Do not add thinners or solvents to WEST SYSTEM epoxy."

"Apply second and subsequent coats of epoxy following the same procedures. Ensure the previous coat is still tacky, but has cured firmly enough to support the weight of the next coat. To avoid sanding between coats, apply all coats in the same day. After the final coat has cured overnight, wash with clean water and abrade the surface to prepare for the final finish."


So either way, over the repair epoxy, you need to roll on a barrier coat x 6, and west reccommends an additive. I like using interprotect because I KNOW it is compatible with West Epoxy, and I KNOW it is compatible with the Interlux anti-fouling paint i am using.

It's 5 o'clock somewhere:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
bljones is offline  
Quote Quick Reply Share with Facebook
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Interlux Micron Extra bottom paint Dmarina General Discussion (sailing related) 2 04-22-2013 09:08 AM
Interlux bottom paint Rustyf Boat Review and Purchase Forum 3 03-16-2010 09:46 PM
Interlux versus West Marine bottom paint Bene505 Gear & Maintenance 8 03-23-2009 03:43 PM
Bottom Paint Advice DBboat Gear & Maintenance 11 07-09-2008 02:40 PM
Bottom Paint Advice. Triquetra Gear & Maintenance 15 04-20-2008 09:54 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome