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Old 05-27-2014
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Standing Rigging tight enough?

Hi All,

This question is for you who have experience tweaking standing rigging. The rigging was "dock tuned" by a pro rigger. I went out and had some wind this weekend and hope I finished the tuning correctly.

1st day we only had enough wind so that no matter how tight I pulled the sails in, we could only get a max of 12-15 degrees of list. I was clearly able to see the mast top leaning to leeward along with the slack lower shrouds on the leeward side. Lightened the cap shrouds so I had a straight pole and tightened the lowers hand tight to remove the "loose" cable on the leeward sides.

2nd day we had good wind and got to 20 degrees no problem. The mast was still straight, but the loweres were floppy slack again, so I hand tightened them again.

So I've done what most articles I read said to do (as well as the rigger who helped me step the mast). I put the Loos tension gauge on back at the dock and here's my question after the readings. My cap shrouds are at 12%, the forward loweres are at 9%, the aft lowers are at 7% and the back stay is between 9 and 12% (I have a slight rake on the mast).

Are these number high enough? I don't know what "good" looks like. I probably wouldn't be asking this question if I didn't have a gauge.

Dave
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Old 05-27-2014
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Re: Standing Rigging tight enough?

IDK, that seems pretty loose to me, on my C22 we went 25 on the fore shrouds and 16 on the two aft shrouds. We have pretty light winds at my inland lake in Arizona.

I know every boat is different but your numbers seem low.. Check out link.

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Old 05-27-2014
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Re: Standing Rigging tight enough?

Go to http://www.riggingandsails.com/pdf/selden-tuning.pdf and look for the 'meter stick method' of setting/verifying correct rig tension - without a tension gage. Proper rig tension is important for how your jib/genoa sets and takes its proper shape; and, is quite important with regard to 'pointing ability'. Your 'lowers' numbers seem too loose. Most boats need ~12% backstay tension for sailing in or less than 12Kts apparent so that the forestay sag is under control.

Sometimes even 'brain surgeons' make mistakes.
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Old 05-27-2014
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Re: Standing Rigging tight enough?

good stuff above

Im about to test sail tune my boat after replacing some rigging

there is a method out there that instead of tightening up the leeward lowers while sailing you actually tack over and adjust the opposite side, tack back over and see if you eliminated the sag while always sighting the mast up the mainsail track...

on my boat its recomended that dock side you only use the forward lowers for static tuning...and get correct toughtness, after first getting correct mast rake forward and aft with forestay and backstay first.

then its uppers to get mast inline...intermediates and finally lowers...

then only then after everything is kosher you tighten up aft lowers the reason being is if they are tight to begin with you wont get the correct rake and most importantly BEND in the correct posotion regarding the mast for sail shape(main).

also because the aft lowers are deck attached only and will possibly give you false readings and loosen up and therefore you will retighten only to get a reverse bend on the mast

on my boat or anyboat with dual lowers its recomended that the forwward ones be substantially tighter or lets say around 25% tighter than the aft ones...all other things considered...

also and this is just me rig tuning is absoltuely BOAT SPECIFIC...there are great tuning guides out there and general sail setting and shape guides etc...but always on boats tuning is specific to your boat, year model and at times personal from boat to boat...cause you are also dealing with hull flex, deck structers, age of rigging etc...

good luck!

ps as an aside note...I prefer slightly LOOSE than too tight...too tight will cause more damage and stresses in hardware, plates, decks attachments etc...than slightly lose...

also racers for the most part have slightly loser rigs(for the most part) dock side tune than cruisers and daysailors...

for cruising basically its mast in line when sailing and call it good
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Re: Standing Rigging tight enough?

this is my current boats tuning GUIDE

Mast Systems

its a no tension gauge way of doing it, I also beleive that just using numbers its easy to screw up more than going by feel and mast bend rake, side to side etc...whats paramount is to always test sail and tune the rig why sailing...
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Re: Standing Rigging tight enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_E View Post
Hi All,

This question is for you who have experience tweaking standing rigging. The rigging was "dock tuned" by a pro rigger. I went out and had some wind this weekend and hope I finished the tuning correctly.

1st day we only had enough wind so that no matter how tight I pulled the sails in, we could only get a max of 12-15 degrees of list. I was clearly able to see the mast top leaning to leeward along with the slack lower shrouds on the leeward side. Lightened the cap shrouds so I had a straight pole and tightened the lowers hand tight to remove the "loose" cable on the leeward sides.

2nd day we had good wind and got to 20 degrees no problem. The mast was still straight, but the loweres were floppy slack again, so I hand tightened them again.

So I've done what most articles I read said to do (as well as the rigger who helped me step the mast). I put the Loos tension gauge on back at the dock and here's my question after the readings. My cap shrouds are at 12%, the forward loweres are at 9%, the aft lowers are at 7% and the back stay is between 9 and 12% (I have a slight rake on the mast).

Are these number high enough? I don't know what "good" looks like. I probably wouldn't be asking this question if I didn't have a gauge.

Dave
dave there is also the slack check on rigging...

what is your lateral slack on all shrouds and stays...

for static tune...do your cap shrouds have 1.5-2 inches slack from center

and compare that to your lowers, they should have 2 inches to 2-5 later movement especially the aft ones

backstay at rest if adjusteable should be way loose and floppy

etc...
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Old 05-27-2014
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Re: Standing Rigging tight enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_E View Post
So I've done what most articles I read said to do (as well as the rigger who helped me step the mast). I put the Loos tension gauge on back at the dock and here's my question after the readings. My cap shrouds are at 12%, the forward loweres are at 9%, the aft lowers are at 7% and the back stay is between 9 and 12% (I have a slight rake on the mast).
That is too loose.

Having the numbers that low reduces stress on the chainplates and standing rigging, but increases it on the mast.

This inexpensive book does a very good job of explaining how to tune your standing rigging, also has good instructions on adjusting running rigging to maximize your sail performance, and is small enough and easy enough to follow to leave on the boat:
Sail and Rig Tuning: Ivar Dedekam: 9781898660675: Amazon.com: Books Sail and Rig Tuning: Ivar Dedekam: 9781898660675: Amazon.com: Books


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Re: Standing Rigging tight enough?

A slack rig is far more damaging than a tight one. Movement and shock loading hurts, constant (proper) tension does not. For all the money people spend on boats, a Loos gauge is really not expensive. Buy one, follow the directions, and do it correctly.
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Re: Standing Rigging tight enough?

a TOO SLACK rig
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Re: Standing Rigging tight enough?

Hi All,

Just got off the phone with the rigger that helped step the mast and dock tune. He suggests that if at 15 degrees I had the mast straight and in column and slack removed it was good. Then at 20 degrees, verified the mast still straight and in column, removed the slack and used the Loos (back at the dock) just to compair values side to side (which were spot on equal), it was time to put in the pins and call it good. Check things every now and then.

I have an older boat, that came with NO instructions for stepping the mast and rigging adjustment other than to "hire a proffessional rigger". I like the not too tight discussion. Why tighter than it needs to be? Thanks for the input ya'll.

Dave
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