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-   -   Forestay toggle(s) (http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/145506-forestay-toggle-s.html)

mbowser 06-06-2014 08:09 AM

Forestay toggle(s)
 
I am about to redo my standing rigging and have a question regarding the forestay. I will be using a toggle at the lower end of wire (Hayn HiMod), but I had an eye swaged at the top. Should I add a toggle to the top as well? Will I be doomed if I don't?

I am going from roller furling back to hank on, so I can't just replicate exactly what was there, but the furler didn't have a toggle on top if that matters.

Thanks in advance.

BubbleheadMd 06-06-2014 09:05 AM

Re: Forestay toggle(s)
 
I recently went through this. I had toggles top and bottom, and assumed that the PO added them because he mis-measured the forestay and made it too short.

That was an incorrect assumption.

The toggles allow the forestay to fall off to leeward without work-hardening the wire, which will lead to a shorter working life.

Even a properly tuned rig will allow the forestay to sag off a bit. Strong winds, and sheeting hard while sailing close-hauled will always attempt to pull the stay off to the side. The toggles provide the necessary articulation.

You can eliminate separate toggles if your forestay fittings have "integrated" toggles, such as this by Hayn:http://hayn.com/marine/rigging/image...ion_toggle.gif

mbowser 06-06-2014 10:17 AM

Re: Forestay toggle(s)
 
Thanks BubbleHeadMD, I understood the reasoning behind using the toggle, but wasn't sure if it was necessary to have them top and bottom since my roller furling unit never had a top toggle. I think you confirmed my suspicion that it really is a good idea. The reason I questioned it to begin with was that my roller furling unit doesn't have one at the top, but the rotating nature of furling forestays may negate that need.

christian.hess 06-06-2014 10:43 AM

Re: Forestay toggle(s)
 
toggles top and bottom is a must do on 99 percent of furler installations not only for letting the wire sag to leeward and give but to helpe prevent twisting and fatigue from furling in heavy winds etc..

2 toggles is always best but if your just using hank on a toggle on bottom is absolutely fine...

thats what I have...

cheers

mbowser 06-06-2014 10:56 AM

Re: Forestay toggle(s)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by christian.hess (Post 1906114)
toggles top and bottom is a must do on 99 percent of furler installations not only for letting the wire sag to leeward and give but to helpe prevent twisting and fatigue from furling in heavy winds etc..

2 toggles is always best but if your just using hank on a toggle on bottom is absolutely fine...

thats what I have...

cheers

That makes my decision to go back to hanks that much easier. The RF was installed by a previous owner and I never really liked it. I never felt like I could get the best shape I could out of the sail, and when the wind piped up and I got overpowered, I would have to fall off the wind or attempt to partially roll up the jib which completely ruined any shape.

The fact that the RF had no toggle at the top leads me to believe that it was probably wearing prematurely as well so replacing all of it is a good thing.

christian.hess 06-06-2014 11:31 AM

Re: Forestay toggle(s)
 
cool...yeah In general terms Im not a fan of roller furling but I understand its benefits but I also know there are many many many amateur and "pro" installations that are done badly inlcuding badly sized forestay or no toggles etc...

stays on furlers in general terms should be replaced twice as often as hank on stays...

so that translates to roughly every 5 years...

another issue I hate about most roller furlers is the inaccesability of the riggng under, most owner dont want to dissasemble the unit in order to check the condition of the swages or terminals etc...

Im also a fan of swaged stay up top and mechanical on bottom...a swaged up top wont suffer much crevice corrosion since water and stuff wont trickle into it, you save some money and you can get the exact forestay length for your boat with the use if any mechanical terminal you want

norseman, hayn, staylock etc...

anywhoo good luck

mbowser 06-06-2014 12:11 PM

Re: Forestay toggle(s)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by christian.hess (Post 1906274)
cool...yeah In general terms Im not a fan of roller furling but I understand its benefits but I also know there are many many many amateur and "pro" installations that are done badly inlcuding badly sized forestay or no toggles etc...

stays on furlers in general terms should be replaced twice as often as hank on stays...

so that translates to roughly every 5 years...

another issue I hate about most roller furlers is the inaccesability of the riggng under, most owner dont want to dissasemble the unit in order to check the condition of the swages or terminals etc...

I agree 100% regarding roller furlers and much of what you say is why I am going back to hank on. They are convenient though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by christian.hess (Post 1906274)
Im also a fan of swaged stay up top and mechanical on bottom...a swaged up top wont suffer much crevice corrosion since water and stuff wont trickle into it, you save some money and you can get the exact forestay length for your boat with the use if any mechanical terminal you want

norseman, hayn, staylock etc...

Also, 100% agreed and was the reason I chose the swage-on-top route.

Thanks for the advice.

captbillc 06-06-2014 01:17 PM

Re: Forestay toggle(s)
 
i helped bring a 42ft vagabond from spain to antigua. the next year we were heading to florida. in the mona passage heading for the dominican republic the forestay broke in a blow. the boat had french masts with ball swaged to the stay on top. under tension it could not flex and the wire broke. that is why i prefer toggles.

christian.hess 06-06-2014 03:57 PM

Re: Forestay toggle(s)
 
those ball swages are infamous for breaking...they break right at the neck part of the swage where the ball starts...


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